6.2 Hrothgar Update

[reivaxe]

Yeah, perhaps initially after launch they did think racial specific hairs would work, but, obviously, considering the recent official reply from Yoshida on how these hairs would take significantly longer, I feel like that's the actual reason why: it would be too much work. Shared hairs are easier to implement and they were supposed to appease people wanting them. Why Yoshida was "surprised" there was such backlash over the hrothgar hairs.

Same thing happened with Viera, they were supposed to only get race hair.
There's also the fact that they made that choice (ONLY Race hair for Viera, no changeable Hrothgar hair but new manes and "faces" for them to potion to) waaaay BEFORE they decided to add in the missing genders. IMO it was THAT choice that made that path too hard. It may not be too much to add in, after years, 4 new Viera race hairstyles and 4 Hrothgar manes that are custom fitted & locked to their face/ not useable by other faces. Base Hrothgar manes are ... basic, they don't even have highlights. But adding in Male Viera and Female Hrothgar literally 2xs the amount of new, custom hair they would have to make.

It becomes far more logical to just make the shared hairs work on these races at that point and scrap the idea of unique, racial hair when you gotta do it for both genders of both races. There's also the years of people begging for shared hair and changeable Hrothgar hair to take into account. Plans can change, this is a living game ... it's never done. These races were never meant to have the counterparts when they were being made, any plans they had for them before deciding to add them can understandably be changed.

[Midareyukki]

They need to work on content that is sustainable/replayable first before worrying about ears.

A race is sustainable content, though. You can't even access stuff without making a character.

Hrothgar were never planned to have SHARED hair, hair that other races have. They were also not designed to be able to change their own hair outside of $10 potions. The plan was to add new heads with unique Hrothgar "Manes" and have people pay $10 to potion to them.

See, you had me until the fantasia bit. That we wouldn't have shared hair is fine, a lot of people want race-exclusive hair since stuff wouldn't otherwise look good on a lion face.
But if that's the model they're going with, despite the fact that no other race had to buy fantasias to do it, then wow Square Enix is ten times worse than I ever thought. And I had to endure All the Bravest!

Like, I know they're not that good. The CEO wants NFTs, and Tabata was fired unfairly. But let it be clear: if that was their intention, then that's just predatory. If no other race had to go through it, then yeah, it's discrimination.

A lot of the male's problems just naturally shouldn't be expected on the females. We have 2 full new races to look at, neither Viera nor Au Ra have both genders made from the same base race's body type. So Body wise, I expect them to be a taller version of literally ANY non-Femroe female. Hunch? Design wise that's a non-starter for females seeing as anything with boobs being hunched is a pain in the butt to animate/ design for/ model for and looks unappealing af so that's not happening. Heads? Outside lala, every female in this game has far less face diversity than their male counterparts.

Ehhh, I'm detecting a little bias there. You really think they won't be hunched over femroes? Do you really? :^)

Ok but no really, considering how Hrothgar are made at the moment, I do think they will be femroes. Like, who knows, they'll break the mold. Don't let that be an indication of much.

Also, stuff being unappealing is to be expected.

Yeah, perhaps initially after launch they did think racial specific hairs would work, but, obviously, considering the recent official reply from Yoshida on how these hairs would take significantly longer, I feel like that's the actual reason why: it would be too much work. Shared hairs are easier to implement and they were supposed to appease people wanting them. Why Yoshida was "surprised" there was such backlash over the hrothgar hairs.

I don't think people are understanding the situation.

A) We KNOW it would take time to make Race-exclusive hair. Not just to make the 3D model, but design it to begin with.
B) We KNOW that just converting stuff over is easier, albeit still a mess to go through.

The issue isn't there, though. The issue was them converting stuff in such a shoddy way and picking the absolute worst ones. That is why he had such a backlash.


The rest I can say is just... "I hope he understands people who play Hrothgar do take the game seriously and that we don't want to be discriminated. We understand it's hard, but after so much crap aimed at us, we've had enough. And that sentiment is valid and understandable. You can't just expect a portion of the playerbase that's felt miserable for the past 3 years because a) the devs ignore it and b) the community trashes it, to not feel absolutely gutted when the only content we asked for is presented to us like we're a laughing stock."

[XiRon]

They need to work on content that is sustainable/replayable first before worrying about ears.

no no theres plenty to do in the game. 5 minutes to press a button to keep preexisting ears on hrothgars heads to just clip thru new hairs will not delay any new content do you people seriously believe the people designing new character customization options are also in charge of battle mapping and dungeon design?
Why is it every time a hrothgar asks "you guys remember we exist yet" some non-hrothgar players lose their minds and think the game will get delayed on new content? They design new shit every patch for 6 races, 7 since we KNOW viera will get every new hair option, it will not kill them to make that same thing work on hrothgar.
Hrothgar got nothing, not a damn thing for the entire duration of shb and shb did not suffer a derth of content, do not act like the loss of ultimate was hrothgars fault when literally nothing good happened for hrothgar the whole expansion they were introduced in.

[XiRon]

Ehhh, I'm detecting a little bias there. You really think they won't be hunched over femroes? Do you really? :^)

Ok but no really, considering how Hrothgar are made at the moment, I do think they will be femroes. Like, who knows, they'll break the mold. Don't let that be an indication of much.

Also, stuff being unappealing is to be expected.

Girl you know hrothgals aint gonna hunch that would require any female in this game to have a different body type in this game lmao.

We can assume two things about hrothgals.
1) They will be same size as hrothmen bc the Bozjan murals depict fh being only slightly shorter than the writer copout femroe, and mh are only slightly shorter than femroe
2) They will not hunch because "we heard your complaints so fh will actually look good while mh are stuck with a hunch for no reason please understand removing the hunch from a jerryrigged roe spine is so hard :,(". Also they want to appeal to straight boys, ie, female miqote players, and so fh will have to be uguu kawaii and just barely bestial in any capacity.

On the subject of hunching they need to remove the hunch. It has 0 reasom to exist, hrothgar dont have animal feet so why woukd they have issues standing properly?

[Midareyukki]

I just want to direct people to the Hrothgar Feedback thread I keep mentioning.

I know I'm being a nag with it, and idk the extent people agree with it. But I made it by consolidating what was said by many people. So I do want to make some things clear:

• Hrothgar players aren't blaming the development team inherently. We just want someone to own up to what happened. The situation isn't sustainable, it's currently harming the development of the game and the enjoyment people have with this race. Either someone in the team isn't being honest and just doesn't want to do something too complicated. Or the development team's leaders have given up or feel like the race has become too much. Or they don't have any funding, time or resources, in which case the fault lies on the people above. There are so many factors and so many people involved that the fault is fuzzy and you can't target specific people. Nor do we want to, given how dangerous JP's work culture is.
• It's not about the blame. It's about how this isn't working out and that someone needs to do something about it. We're not the ones making the game, they are. And if they aren't the ones to blame, then they need to organize themselves. "This isn't working for these players, we need to do something. If not content, then at least a proper answer."
• We know it takes time to make any piece of content. Or at least, I personally do from my own experience. I can at least hazard a guess. But just because it's hard and time-consuming, it doesn't mean it's impossible. This is a team known for allocating its time as well as they can. We just want time allocated for us.
• We know this race isn't well done. Call it unfinished or faulty, the point is that the way it's done is harming how future stuff will be made for it. We're just asking for them to address it.
• We are aware what their paradigm was. But that doesn't mean it has to be. What was decided before can change, and has changed.
• We aren't mad at them for not giving us racial-exclusive stuff. Some people will always be mad, some people will always be happy. What we aren't okay with is how shoddy and how many corners keep being cut to address us. Even if other races had cut corners, Hrothgar is having too many.
• The outrage comes from years of feeling mistreated, and then seeing the level of quality presented. It wasn't good. To some people it may have been the lack of racial exclusivity, but the common factor to every complaint was the quality.
• Yoshida's surprise is understandable... on that it shows disconnect.

We understand our race is the most complex of all. But we love it. Yet it's hard to continue doing so when it feels the development team doesn't want us to like what they do.

I know not many people are willing to be patient. I personally am, I just want quality assurance and respect. That is all.

Please read the 5th post of the Feedback Thread.

[Midareyukki]

On the subject of hunching they need to remove the hunch. It has 0 reasom to exist, hrothgar dont have animal feet so why woukd they have issues standing properly?

Carrying the whole weight of the Bozja content on their backs, obviously.

[Doc_Seraph]

I think when people say dev, they include the entire management. Not the workers who probably didn't get a say in the matter (and even worked behind Yoshi-P's back to give us glasses... which tells us a lot about the identity of the man who isn't interested in giving us basic glamour options).

Aye kupo probably <3

[Raim]

Don't remove the hunch. Just do what I keep saying and make it a simple toggle option in the Aesthetician for those who wish to keep it. It can't be 'that' hard to implement. And don't give me this crap about how they would take forever to redo the model animations. We already have standing Hrothgar emotes. We have standing Hrothgar in cutscenes and walking in cutscenes at times. They definitely have the animations for if they wanted to make them fully upright. The only problem might be combat animations, but they can keep the beastlike posture for that if they insist. Secondly, they need to have staff sit down and actually explain the entire process of adding in things like new hairstyles and why it takes so much longer or is so much more difficult for them than 'other people' making them. Have Yoshida write up the process of it so we at least know why they are struggling to do something that at first seems like it would be easy for a programmer.

[Kazhar]

Don't remove the hunch. Just do what I keep saying and make it a simple toggle option in the Aesthetician for those who wish to keep it. It can't be 'that' hard to implement. And don't give me this crap about how they would take forever to redo the model animations. We already have standing Hrothgar emotes. We have standing Hrothgar in cutscenes and walking in cutscenes at times. They definitely have the animations for if they wanted to make them fully upright. The only problem might be combat animations, but they can keep the beastlike posture for that if they insist.

They probably won't do this. The amount of character creation options seems to be limited to a fixed number. Probably to prevent the character packets from getting too large. And AFAIK they never increased the size, not even for the new races.

So they will probably say that if we want a hunch toggle, they'd have to remove another option. Or add that option for everyone.

[Ayuhra]

They probably won't do this. The amount of character creation options seems to be limited to a fixed number. Probably to prevent the character packets from getting too large. And AFAIK they never increased the size, not even for the new races.

So they will probably say that if we want a hunch toggle, they'd have to remove another option. Or add that option for everyone.

I really hope they fix this as part of future proofing the game.

Once the female Hrothgar are in I will happily accept no more races if it means fixing character creation and getting more customization options across the board.