Why do casuals act as if it's the end of the world when suggesting?

[Caitlyn]

I still need to do Aglaia this week. I will record a video tonight and post to youtube so you can see just how much you "dont need to heal for the most part." Im probably not allowed to link to the video here, but it will be findable. Im not disputing that you really believe the things you are saying, but my experience is very, very different lol. Like half the raid still gets blown off of Rhalgar multiple times.

Go ahead. I will do the same.
How can the entire raid blown of by Rhalgr? I never expierenced that since the raid came out.
The max amount of deaths at the same time were 5 or 6.

[Kazelus]

If you dont want to make 24 man raids harder, fine. But then make it shorter.


Let me compare Aglaia with CT.

CT got trash. I hate trash.

15-20 mins and you re done.

Aglaia got trash too.

25-35 mins for the most part.

25-35 mins for the latest 24 man raids against 15-20 for the fastest one because people are completely overgeared on it, I don't see a problem in needed time for 24 man raids here. The only reason it take a while is because too much people are lazy and not doing their parts in damaging the boss, not a raid design problems...

And that's why the rest of the game should be a little harder and have DPS checks more often to force people into pushing their damn button...

One thing I never understood in ShB, the first days, I killed Titania in one pull with a lot of death during the adds phases. The next weeks, I've seen party unable to beat the dps checks of adds without any death...

[Caitlyn]

The only reason it take a while is because too much people are lazy and not doing their parts in damaging the boss, not a raid design problems...

I totally agree with you. But since the playerbase wont change to the better, the dungeons must change. Laziness shouldnt be awarded in my opinion. Not in a team-based game.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

I totally agree with you. But since the playerbase wont change to the better, the dungeons must change. Laziness shouldnt be awarded in my opinion. Not in a team-based game.

Funny thing is, I know Yoshi P agrees with you too. He has gone on record stating that (paraphrasing) if he were designing a game for his personal tastes, it would be much, much harder. But he knows that isn't his audience.

[Tehmon]

The same rule still applies to HW/ SB/ ShB alli raids.
CT is mandatory so even the smallest amount of the playerbase not unlocking HW/ SB/ ShB already reduces the pool of players eligible for it. CT is available at 50 while the other alli raids are 60/70/80 further reducing the pool of players by a signifcant amount the higher up you go.
A single person sub 60 is enough to lock 23 other people into CT and it doesn't matter if 23 other people could also get other alli raids in their roulette and roulette is still the biggest reason to do alli raids, that has nothing to do with difficulty.

I know you're trying really hard to argue that nobody needs more midcore content because the alli raid queue times clearly prove that it's not wanted with that really, really subtle "or... not wanting to play them?" but use some logic.
I have all alli raids unlocked and I rarely get anything other than CT because I always have a few people that are sub 60. I'd love to see Ivalice and Nier more often alas the playerpool for them is simply a lot smaller by nature.

I don't know why you're acting all antagonistic towards me and saying I'm not thinking logically..

It is perfectly understandable and good to make a point about wanting more mid-level content in terms of difficulty. All I am trying to point out is that the mid-level content that does exist in the game currently doesn't seem to be actively sought out and played as the rest of the easier content, putting into question how big of an issue this is overall, and how much time and effort should developers put into fixing this issue.

Your argument is that people don't play this content solely because they haven't unlocked it (yet).
I am saying that I disagree somewhat, and that the reason people don't actively play them is because the effort needed to put into them isn't worth their time. What I am also saying is that if this specific issue you are presenting is as big of a glaring flaw in the game that needs fixing immediately, the lack of people playing actively queueing in for said content doesn't seem to make a good case for your argument, and that the addition of harder '' casual '' content is not a thing that doesn't come with it's issues that need to be addressed.

I am not saying that the game doesn't need said content. What I am saying is that it doesn't seem to be this huge issue that majority of the playerbase is concerned about, making it a question of what content should be increased in difficulty, how do we implement said increase in difficulty and what should we look out for as we increase difficulty, what negative effects does it have on the player base and their enjoyment.

[Kazelus]

I totally agree with you. But since the playerbase wont change to the better, the dungeons must change. Laziness shouldnt be awarded in my opinion. Not in a team-based game.

That's what I'm saying since the start of the thread, we need the MSQ content to ask players to play not perfectly optimal but with a baseline of doing combo and using CD.

The best thing that could happens to the game would be locking the DF from new players if they don't do some learning before (Like an enhanced hall of the novice with dps check and heal check. And an overhealing check.) and just give them the duty support so they can play with AI if they don't want to learn. It should have different level of difficulty throught ARR and only block dungeon from a level you haven't done before on the "enhanced hall of the novice".

[Caitlyn]

Funny thing is, I know Yoshi P agrees with you too. He has gone on record stating that (paraphrasing) if he were designing a game for his personal tastes, it would be much, much harder. But he knows that isn't his audience.

Well, it was designed for his personal taste back in Heavensward. It was much harder back then. Demon Wall in Amdapor Hard. Even some job quests.
But a small or niche audience doesnt create much money. So he sacrificed FFXIV's original status as a "hard but fair MMORPG" just to be more accessable for more players. The thing is, games can be hard AND accessable at the same time. But that would require alot of work.

I hate it. I hate to see how FFXIV become easier and boring. Just for the sake of generating a bigger playerbase.
Alot things improved over the years, I know that. But the only thing which gets worse every time is the playerbase as a result of making things easier and boring.

It says alot about the playerbase if people join a "Lion Phase practise group for E12S" and then wiping for 30 mins on the very first mechanics. Yes, that really happened. And it happened more than once.
And people are wondering why I beg the Devs to change their course. Make content more engaging and less a waste of time. Thats the only thing I want (that and some sin eater glamour in the shop xD).

[Xaruko_Nexume]

Well, it was designed for his personal taste back in Heavensward. It was much harder back then. Demon Wall in Amdapor Hard. Even some job quests.
But a small or niche audience doesnt create much money. So he sacrificed FFXIV's original status as a "hard but fair MMORPG" just to be more accessable for more players. The thing is, games can be hard AND accessable at the same time. But that would require alot of work.

I hate it. I hate to see how FFXIV become easier and boring. Just for the sake of generating a bigger playerbase.
Alot things improved over the years, I know that. But the only thing which gets worse every time is the playerbase as a result of making things easier and boring.

While you and I seem to want very different things from the game, I am actually truly sorry that you and those like you aren't having fun like I am, which is the most Ive ever had in a video game. and I do hope you find the fun again.

[Caitlyn]

While you and I seem to want very different things from the game, I am actually truly sorry that you and those like you aren't having fun like I am, which is the most Ive ever had in a video game. and I do hope you find the fun again.

I have fun. But I dare to run something with random people. Since Yoshi-P want to make the game more solo-friendly, I cant wait to go all content with NPCs only.
And on a side note, I ve been here since Beta of ARR. You dont know how FFXIV was in the good old days.

[Rilifane]

I don't know why you're acting all antagonistic towards me and saying I'm not thinking logically..

It is perfectly understandable and good to make a point about wanting more mid-level content in terms of difficulty. All I am trying to point out is that the mid-level content that does exist in the game currently doesn't seem to be actively sought out and played as the rest of the easier content, putting into question how big of an issue this is overall, and how much time and effort should developers put into fixing this issue.

Your argument is that people don't play this content solely because they haven't unlocked it (yet).
I am saying that I disagree somewhat, and that the reason people don't actively play them is because the effort needed to put into them isn't worth their time. What I am also saying is that if this specific issue you are presenting is as big of a glaring flaw in the game that needs fixing immediately, the lack of people playing actively queueing in for said content doesn't seem to make a good case for your argument, and that the addition of harder '' casual '' content is not a thing that doesn't come with it's issues that need to be addressed.

I am not saying that the game doesn't need said content. What I am saying is that it doesn't seem to be this huge issue that majority of the playerbase is concerned about, making it a question of what content should be increased in difficulty, how do we implement said increase in difficulty and what should we look out for as we increase difficulty, what negative effects does it have on the player base and their enjoyment.

Apologies if I came of as rude but whenever someone seems to go for a "Ha! Gotcha!" moment, I lose my patience. Whether you intended to or not, it came of as doing exactly that to me.

What it does put into question is if the right midcore content.
Do you know what core loops are? Just a genuine question here because it might explain while you view things as you do.
The problem is that alli raids are not part of them aside from the most current one.

Glamour farming, RPing, housing district parcours or seeking your own challenge are all not part of the core loop.
Leveling and gearing are two of the major core loops in any MMO. Most other content ranges from "support content" to "niche".
Old alli raids are essentially niche content once done for the story. Why? They don't provide gear upgrades, they don't give signifcant amount of tomes and they don't give even halfway-decent exp. On top of that you're also synced down and many job kits has been changed so much over the years that they feel incomplete and janky below a certain level.
And that is a problem that FFXIV has dealt with for a long time: they design elaborate content which then has restrictions which makes it unattractive and completely cut off from the core loops.

The majority of alli raid roulettes will result in CT because it is the lowest common denominator, that is a simple fact.
The reason why people usually don't queue for e.g. SB raids specifically in order to get their fill for midcore difficulty is because they're not part of the core loop - you basically get nothing for it.
And MMOs don't function on hopes, faith and prayers alone where everyone does everything without getting anything out of it because they simply love it oh so much.

And before you say "so you only want a shiny reward".
Why do you think MSQ roulette had that insane exp and tome gain attached to it and forced cutscene watching? Not because players loved helping new player so much.
People want something for their time.
It's natural.
But people get next to nothing from doing specific old alli raids. You can't delegate a whole level of difficulty to unrewarding niche content and then say "See, you have content like that! But nobody is doing it so nobody seems to want it".