Is no one happy?

[Elesh]

So most of what you hear here is people talking about their one or two specific gripes. But the fact that people care enough to post means they MOSTLY like the game still, they're just - most of the time anyways - exaggerating their complaint to an extreme to make it sound more actionable.

Just a few posts after I say this... someone comes in prove that this comment doesn't apply to EVERYONE and there are some people who just want to be miserable....

[Dzian]

I have never seen a game forum that was positive. Games at their heights are complained about endlessly, games in the grave are picked at and mocked, it’s never a bright and happy place. I’ll never forget seeing the web of complaints that existed for WoW back in the day when it was at what most considered its peak.

In its day the Eve online forums were largely positive and very friendly.. made that infamous learning curve much much easier to deal with because of how positive and helpful the forums were..

There's also a lot of positivity here. Much of it gets overlooked though because it breaks the golden rule of feedback.

There are only 2 types of feedback.. many assume that they are positive feedback, and negative feedback, that is wrong.. the 2 types of feed back are 1, constructive feedback, and 2, worthless feedback. Positive or negative it doesn't matter.

Saying "this game is amazing" is worthless feedback. In exactly the same way saying "this game is crap" is.

It's not constructive. What exactly is amazing? And why? Just saying it's amazing is meaningless. You could be saying this game has the very best housing system you've ever seen... or that the whm is a super fun and complex job...

[Carin-Eri]

In its day the Eve online forums were largely positive and very friendly.. made that infamous learning curve much much easier to deal with because of how positive and helpful the forums were..

There's also a lot of positivity here. Much of it gets overlooked though because it breaks the golden rule of feedback.

There are only 2 types of feedback.. many assume that they are positive feedback, and negative feedback, that is wrong.. the 2 types of feed back are 1, constructive feedback, and 2, worthless feedback. Positive or negative it doesn't matter.

Saying "this game is amazing" is worthless feedback. In exactly the same way saying "this game is crap" is.

It's not constructive. What exactly is amazing? And why? Just saying it's amazing is meaningless. You could be saying this game has the very best housing system you've ever seen... or that the whm is a super fun and complex job...

I agree, with your comments pertaining to positivity, actually.

Whilst have been here (on the forums) a good four or so months at this point, not too long after I first started playing I hit a proverbial (personal) brick wall and turned to the forum for advice: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...t-the-Gameplay

The advice/support I received in that thread was invaluable - I was, admittedly, struggling with various aspects of the game and doubting whether I should even continue with it. I did, and that was - in part - thanks to the encouragement that I received here. Granted, there were a few 'get gud' type replies too, but on the whole it was positive and much appreciated.

[IkaraGreydancer]

What part of that wasn't clear? They pumped the story full of shallow emotional moments with a bit of sad music and fluff slice of life knowing they'll get the streamer crowd overreacting and pulling out the fake tears or "awwwwww he eat burgy!" to end up on Youtube clip compilations. They care more about trending on social media and making memes than telling a good story.



You have no idea what I'm talking about and are clearly proud of it.



Right, because that was the only problem.



At the very least it wouldn't be as disappointing if we were getting the same amount as content at the same quality as the previous expansion, not seeing decreases on both fronts.



Alright, now I know you're trolling.



Then why not at least be honest about what exactly it'll be before it drops? Why can't they do that?



No thanks, I think I would like to be happy in this game again. "Well guess what, the devs AREN'T LISTENING" isn't the dunk you think it is.

If you found msq to be shallow that's on you. Your opinion isn't the fact of the matter. God forbid a games story let your characters rest and enjoy themselves after all the shit they've been doing since ARR. Also plenty of people (the majority of be willing to but love EWs story. You only really find naysayers here on the OF. (Inb4 "those folks have crap taste in writting")

You claim classes don't requires an IQ past 50 yet I'm telling you NO CLASS has ever been hard to play to such a degree. Simple as that. Yall keep talking about of xiv is brain dead as an exaggeration and it's going to get you knowwhere fast.

May not be the only problem but sure was a huge one.

Trolling because why? I actually check on other areas where the community is and not just listen to the "all of EW is garbo" crowd here?

Why not be honest? That implies there's lies (tells me where you head is). The actual question would be why not be clear. And to that answer we don't know yet. Be patient like the rest of us and I'm sure we'll get more info soon, same with the deep dungeon and Criterion ones (all equating to more than we got for ShB so far, to address your "less content" point).

And I'm not saying the devs aren't listening. I'm saying if you feel they aren't be smart with your money and put it into better things. Others here have done so and they have my respect for that. No "dunk" was even attempted there..

[MintnHoney]

A couple of things.

I actually check on other areas where the community is and not just listen to the "all of EW is garbo" crowd here?

I am active within various "communities" for FFXIV as well, and see many various opinions and feedback; even on some of the most positive groups, there's admission that things have been releasing, lately, in a less-than-perfect state. Even Yoshi-P has provided a statement admitting as much.
In your flailing around to defend yourself on an online forum of EW "doomsayers," at the very least, you could keep track of what the developers are saying. Your "perspective" isn't as infallibly broad as you think it is.

Why not be honest? That implies there's lies (tells me where you head is).

When someone uses the word "honest," this does include that they would rather the subject not be lying, yes. However, for someone to be honest, they must also be forthcoming with the truth; particularly, if they want consideration or action from other people. For YoshiP to warn us not to let our expectations get too high, but not follow up with what exactly the Island Sanctuary is, unfortunately leaves room for questioning and scrutiny. If he had just been honest about what the Island Sanctuary truly is and simply give us some basic, concrete(-but-subject-to-change) information as to what has been decided, he wouldn't need to worry about expectations going overboard.

[EaraGrace]

In its day the Eve online forums were largely positive and very friendly.. made that infamous learning curve much much easier to deal with because of how positive and helpful the forums were..

Looking at the Eve forums today I don’t see much positivity, but I’ll take your word for it that it was better back then.

There's also a lot of positivity here. Much of it gets overlooked though because it breaks the golden rule of feedback.

There are only 2 types of feedback.. many assume that they are positive feedback, and negative feedback, that is wrong.. the 2 types of feed back are 1, constructive feedback, and 2, worthless feedback. Positive or negative it doesn't matter.

Saying "this game is amazing" is worthless feedback. In exactly the same way saying "this game is crap" is.

It's not constructive. What exactly is amazing? And why? Just saying it's amazing is meaningless. You could be saying this game has the very best housing system you've ever seen... or that the whm is a super fun and complex job...

It’s clear the forum and, as I was saying before, all game forums have a problem with being slanted in specific direction. Namely a proliferation of subjective, unhelpful negative feedback. I’ll go as far as to say that applies to most of the feedback shared on the forum today. Any criticism of the criticism is then shouted down and cycle of negativity continues. None of this is constructive or helpful.

I am active within various "communities" for FFXIV as well, and see many various opinions and feedback; even on some of the most positive groups, there's admission that things have been releasing, lately, in a less-than-perfect state. Even Yoshi-P has provided a statement admitting as much.
In your flailing around to defend yourself on an online forum of EW "doomsayers," at the very least, you could keep track of what the developers are saying. Your "perspective" isn't as infallibly broad as you think it is.

And people ripped Shadowbringers. And Stormblood. And Heavensward. And ARR. The issue isn’t critique it’s proclaiming that the game is dying or is in a uniquely bad state when it isn’t. That’s the problem with “doomsaying.”

[Aniya_Estlihn]

Honestly, I am quite happy in a general sense.

I have my complaints, such as jobs not being as fun anymore, and the drip-feed of content that they've stuck to since Heavensward being less than ideal. However, for the most part I'm just grateful to have experienced Endwalker. Faults and all. Even if I recognize that four expansions in, I do not care for the fact that they still opt to withhold any new combat content until 8-12 months into the cycle around X.2/3. I do not like that they still feel that PvE jobs should only be adjusted during patch drops and not with hotfixes, nor do I feel they have a good read on the pulse of the playerbase's satisfaction level.

There's a lot to be desired, but I am still happy with what we've gotten.

Going back to content—I do feel, however, that after 6.X's conclusion, before 7.0, they need to consider that leaving the first eight months of an expansion bereft of content is a bad idea. Relics, the trial series, deep dungeon, casual content, etc. should not be relegated for nearly a year after the expansion drops. Nor should they delay the introduction of extra sources of experience for the various disciplines so far out where there's no genuine benefit for those playing at/from launch to pursue them other than some tacked on token they conjured up to force them to be relevant. It's disrespectful of player's time and effort.

My issues don't stem from Endwalker, but rather the way they approach and handle the game and it's content-scheduling as a whole. I feel like that matters far more than the individual expansion launches, as that is what provides the most value for your subscription.

[MintnHoney]

And people ripped Shadowbringers. And Stormblood. And Heavensward. And ARR.

Good.

Meanwhile people were also declaring perfection for those same expansion. It's been a broad sea of remarks, and there's nothing wrong with any of it.

The issue isn’t critique it’s proclaiming that the game is dying or is in a uniquely bad state when it isn’t. That’s the problem with “doomsaying.”

I'd say the issue is that we have people mistaking presented feedback with variable emotional quality as "doomsaying" because they take personal issue with the feedback, either in the quality in how it's presented, or because of who, specifically, presented the feedback, or because it doesn't match exactly how the reader feels. There's actually quite a bit of constructive feedback about issues that are brought up, and the potential for discussion is generally there, but the "doomsaying" and "whiteknighting" happens when someone goes into a thread with the idea of trying to police others thoughts and opinions, and not actually discuss the topic at hand.

[IkaraGreydancer]

A couple of things.



I am active within various "communities" for FFXIV as well, and see many various opinions and feedback; even on some of the most positive groups, there's admission that things have been releasing, lately, in a less-than-perfect state. Even Yoshi-P has provided a statement admitting as much.
In your flailing around to defend yourself on an online forum of EW "doomsayers," at the very least, you could keep track of what the developers are saying. Your "perspective" isn't as infallibly broad as you think it is.



When someone uses the word "honest," this does include that they would rather the subject not be lying, yes. However, for someone to be honest, they must also be forthcoming with the truth; particularly, if they want consideration or action from other people. For YoshiP to warn us not to let our expectations get too high, but not follow up with what exactly the Island Sanctuary is, unfortunately leaves room for questioning and scrutiny. If he had just been honest about what the Island Sanctuary truly is and simply give us some basic, concrete(-but-subject-to-change) information as to what has been decided, he wouldn't need to worry about expectations going overboard.

Never said doomsayers first off. And sure theres been very minor bugs here and there. Housing has been the biggest bit. The lottery (which isn't content) was the issue. Housing itself functions as it should. But it's been nothing on the vein of this "super buggy expac" that others tout and use as evidence that the game is going downhill. Never said my perspective is infallible. That's your injection. Also let's refrain from taking shots, it's not needed and only serves to create issues

We wouldn't have to worry about expectations going overboard if we just wait and see what it is. I'm not about to blame what isn't said on my take on something. That's off

[Minarisweet]

Around here, at least, it feels like any attempt to say anything positive about the game is immediately bombarded with arguments and insults, accusations of white knighting or toxic positivity, or quickly derailed into yet another rant about EW's story. Usually two or more of the above. We get it, people have legitimate complaints, but other people are allowed to enjoy things too.

I guess your whole thing is saying forums bad cuz they complain huh.