Bring Back Kaiten

[cjbeagle]

I think he just likes Kaiten being gone because he thinks if the job is dumbed down enough, maybe he can parse better than grey or green for a change. (nope)

[Kaseladen]

I think he just likes Kaiten being gone because he thinks if the job is dumbed down enough, maybe he can parse better than grey or green for a change. (nope)

The man's got brain damage
But hey thanks for bumping the threads <3

[RyuuZero]

which is that Enpi doesn't eat Meikyo Shisui anymore. That's also the only Change I wanna keep for Samurai after 6.1

Kaiten still has to return! I do not know why they would comprimize on Resource Utility it doesn't make anysense to dump down Jobclasses, and also what I heared from so many Samurai Players on Youtube regarding "merging Shoha 1 and Shoha 2 so it's AoE with Falloff Damage" NO! Shoha is your Single Target Skill that you do on Bosses, Mumyo Shoha is your AoE Skill that you do for Trash, simple as that If you consider Shoha and Shoha 2 as button bloat, guess what, the entire Meditation Resource could considered Button Bloat, which it's not! (I mean think about it, you can perform an extra attack for every 3rd Iaijutsu. does it make sense? not really, but it's a part of the Samurai and here to stay!)
Also why do so many Samurai disregard the Option to have a Bonus Attack for Single Target and AoE each? at the moment Ogi Namikiri stands alone as Ikishoten Trigger and again I will predict that we get a Single Target Ogi in 7.0 Because it makes sense to offer the Option and it was just like that with Guren and Senei, but what do i use Ogi Namikiri then? Simple! AoE and to clearify any upcomming Questions:
Lightning Round Explaination:
Guren? = AoE
Senei? = Single Target
Shoha? = Single Target
Mumyo Shoha? = AoE
Ogi Namikiri? = AoE

I hope this clears things up..
also, if they revert the changes of Tenka Goken, it wouldn't be so bad, because the old Tenka Goken required more thinking and of course the return of Kaiten! I hope the DevTeam's silence means that they look into it, otherwise Kenki will feel so useless
My Idea to encommmendate the guaranteed Crit would've been that Kaiten makes the following attack Direct Hit! which may wouldn't help the Samurai's Weak State much but also wouldn't have made Kenki absolutely monotonous like it is now.

Though I'd like to know, if there is anyone, who geniuently likes the Kaiten Removal to explain thoroughly why it's a Good Change. Let's have a Respectful Discussion.

I already explained how it destroyed the Kenki Iaijutsu Synergy+++, so please explain to me why that aspect had to be scrapped, personally I think the Kaiten Removal was a fatal misunderstanding from the Devs (who should know better.. or the majority of Samurai players played this Job wrong since 2017, which I do not believe to be the case!)

[xAFROx]

which is that Enpi doesn't eat Meikyo Shisui anymore. That's also the only Change I wanna keep for Samurai after 6.1

Kaiten still has to return! I do not know why they would comprimize on Resource Utility it doesn't make anysense to dump down Jobclasses, and also what I heared from so many Samurai Players on Youtube regarding "merging Shoha 1 and Shoha 2 so it's AoE with Falloff Damage" NO! Shoha is your Single Target Skill that you do on Bosses, Mumyo Shoha is your AoE Skill that you do for Trash, simple as that If you consider Shoha and Shoha 2 as button bloat, guess what, the entire Meditation Resource could considered Button Bloat, which it's not! (I mean think about it, you can perform an extra attack for every 3rd Iaijutsu. does it make sense? not really, but it's a part of the Samurai and here to stay!)
Also why do so many Samurai disregard the Option to have a Bonus Attack for Single Target and AoE each? at the moment Ogi Namikiri stands alone as Ikishoten Trigger and again I will predict that we get a Single Target Ogi in 7.0 Because it makes sense to offer the Option

The main reason anyone suggested combining Shoha 1 and 2 is because of the initial answers given to us by the devs about their reasoning behind Kaiten being taken away.

It's just a compromise any SAM player could point to as it being semi-redundant. Yes, they exist specifically for separate occasions, but that doesn't mean it can't be considered bloat in the grand scheme of things if a core part of the main rotation is taken away just to flatten the rest of the kit and keep buttons that all do the same thing under situational purposes.

Personally, I think Meditation should be more involved. It could be like a secondary Sen system how the iaijutsu button changes based on number of Sen, if Meditation was increased, there could be a single button that changes based on total number of Meditation, as it currently exists, anyway.

Meanwhile, on that same argument of offering compromise solutions to excuses such as bloat, Senei and Guren are much in the same light. Since they share a cooldown with each other and last as long as Ikishoten, they could easily let Shinten and Kyuten upgrade to Senei and Guren when Ikishoten is used.

There are other jobs in the game that already do just that with their kit, and it would make sense with how the kenki cost was made all the same between those four skills.

It lessens the amount of 'bloat' that anyone could potentially perceive in the kit while retaining everything that it already has and also lessens the possibility of cooldown drift.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a change like that, but I'm also the guy that wants Seigan and Merciful Eyes back, and for kenki generation to be tied to positionals like originally.

[Randommob]

Holy wat. That's a very interesting (depressing) comparison point. I knew Shinten spam was real, but more than Hakaze?! gd

Well hakaze is a gcd that start the 3 combo that generate around 45 kenki which is enough for 1 kaiten and 1 shinten if im not wrong. Now with kaiten removed, all kenki will spent on shinten. Combined that with all kenki generated from other source such as meikyo, ishikoten, hakagure (to align raid buff window), third eye, meditation. You have so much kenki and only 1 skill to spend them on which leading to spamming shinten
Btw if you see this SE, this is not how you design a job. When anyone who play it at decent/follow proper rotation can point out the flaw and demand for revert. You at least have a decency to let us know that you got the feedback, work on some way to address it. Not sit on your ass and watch the forum burn. Im new to the forum and all i ever post is about sam. You know you done fk it up when people create acc just to talk about sam change

[RyuuZero]

The main reason anyone suggested combining Shoha 1 and 2 is because of the initial answers given to us by the devs about their reasoning behind Kaiten being taken away.

It's just a compromise any SAM player could point to as it being semi-redundant. Yes, they exist specifically for separate occasions, but that doesn't mean it can't be considered bloat in the grand scheme of things if a core part of the main rotation is taken away just to flatten the rest of the kit and keep buttons that all do the same thing under situational purposes.

Personally, I think Meditation should be more involved. It could be like a secondary Sen system how the iaijutsu button changes based on number of Sen, if Meditation was increased, there could be a single button that changes based on total number of Meditation, as it currently exists, anyway.

Meanwhile, on that same argument of offering compromise solutions to excuses such as bloat, Senei and Guren are much in the same light. Since they share a cooldown with each other and last as long as Ikishoten, they could easily let Shinten and Kyuten upgrade to Senei and Guren when Ikishoten is used.

There are other jobs in the game that already do just that with their kit, and it would make sense with how the kenki cost was made all the same between those four skills.

It lessens the amount of 'bloat' that anyone could potentially perceive in the kit while retaining everything that it already has and also lessens the possibility of cooldown drift.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a change like that, but I'm also the guy that wants Seigan and Merciful Eyes back, and for kenki generation to be tied to positionals like originally.

The Bolded Part thumbs up my point though, again I look at Shoha/Shoha2,Guren/Senei as Options to spend resources on, not as Button Bloat. In Shadowbringers I remember someone playing Samurai saying that it would be better for raiding if Senei was the lvl70 Skill and I also banked on AoE Shoha coming in Endwalker (I should've done a Big Money Bet xDDD) though again on Resources:
We have Kenki Single Target with: Shinten and Seneic(2min CD) and Kenki AoE with: Kyuten (Circle) and Guren (2min CD, Line AoE),
we have Meditation Single Target with: Shoha and Meditation AoE with: Mumyo Shoha and currently
we have Ikishoten Trigger (AoE Only): Ogi Namikiri, which makes me think that we get a Single Target Ogi in 7.0

[RyuuZero]

Maybe I am just too familiar with switching Interfaced/Layouts for those 2 Situations, like I showed with my Interfaces on Page 2 on this Thread.
I also like to line up Senei or Guren with Ikishoten, it just works so well. If also if I get 3 Meditation Stacks with Ogi Namikiri I like to Shoha in between and finish it with Kaeshi Namikiri, I call that the Big Kahuna Combo.
The Meditation Resource I think it's fine, It's way more useful than it was at Shadowbringers Launch, though in my wild imagination I like to think that 7.0 we get 5 stacks and a Buffed Shoha and Mumyo Shoha.
So to I think it's fine having an Single Target and an AoE Rotation/Interface, even if they differ slightly, as long as Resources and be spend on both situations.

Hehe, at least they changed The Counter so that it still has a reward, even if the Extra Kenki is now meaningless and I have the feeling that positionals in general will bite the dust in 7.0
I mean.. if I have to do a a serious positional attack to do.. I press True North to make it save! I'm not a fan of the Boss turning while I do the stuff

[xAFROx]

The Bolded Part thumbs up my point though, again I look at Shoha/Shoha2,Guren/Senei as Options to spend resources on, not as Button Bloat. In Shadowbringers I remember someone playing Samurai saying that it would be better for raiding if Senei was the lvl70 Skill and I also banked on AoE Shoha coming in Endwalker (I should've done a Big Money Bet xDDD) though again on Resources:
We have Kenki Single Target with: Shinten and Seneic(2min CD) and Kenki AoE with: Kyuten (Circle) and Guren (2min CD, Line AoE),
we have Meditation Single Target with: Shoha and Meditation AoE with: Mumyo Shoha and currently
we have Ikishoten Trigger (AoE Only): Ogi Namikiri, which makes me think that we get a Single Target Ogi in 7.0

I wasn't arguing your point. I'm just pointing out the reasoning behind the suggestions made.

I don't consider it bloat either and I play on console/controller. But you can't deny that if you boil down their purposes, they're redundant and could just as easily be made into a targeted aoe with falloff damage to preserve the action while reducing the number of buttons that exist, as a compromise to certain excuses made about why Kaiten was removed.

Never said you were wrong. But the fact that they're identical skills for highly situational moments means they're redundant at the end of the day. When 70 was the cap and we had Guren, we used that on single target bosses and in aoe pulls. It's the same as BLM having a really powerful aoe spell at the end of their rotation back then. Then both were given a similar skill made just for single target. While cool, and making it a choice, it was technically unnecessary.

I like having all of them exist. But I was not trying to say your view is wrong, just explaining the reasoning you seemed to question in the earlier post.

[Karious]

Haven't been subbed for a few days. Might just resub when/if they bring back kaiten

[AsiTsurugi]

Haven't been subbed for a few days. Might just resub when/if they bring back kaiten

Well, getting Kaiten back depends on if Yoshida thinks current subscribers are more valuable than whatever imaginary "single player FF fans" (that will definitely pay a sub for a single player experience, because it definitely makes sense to pay full box price plus a monthly fee to access the game as a purely single-player one) that Yoshida seems to delude himself into thinking will come and pour money into this "game". Although at this point, calling this a "game" is inaccurate; it's more akin to an insult that took the form of a video game.