Do NOT bring Kaiten back

[cjbeagle]

Third Eye isn't bloat. It's an oGCD mitigation that gives an extra bit of gauge.

The important thing about Third Eye isn't actually what it does though - it's what you have to do to optimize it, which is pay attention to all unavoidable AOE, which is normally something that only healers need to be mindful of.

The reward is important in terms of incentive, but its real value is the impact on gameplay by enticing you to pay attention to an entire additional facet of the encounter.

[Vencio]

The "SAM focus" in 4 hours/week average gameplay time, mostly spent in PvP? lol

How do I know? This way: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5958254

And you’re point….being?

Please ellaborate or peek further at my other posts

[Xenon_S]

First, I shall remain civil and attack your arguments only

1. In the 6.1 patch note reading stream, Yoshi-P specifically asked for players to provide feedback after they have played with the changes. We are doing exactly this. In both the JP and NA forums (FR/DE forums being unfortunately dead), there are innumerable players registering on the forums for the first time ever to voice their discontent.

2. In 5.0, Hagakure and Energy Drain was removed, causing massive outcry not unlike what we have here. The changes were reverted in the following patch. So no, it is not a done deal.

3. "No further logic needed" is just a bad faith argument. There have been threads dissecting and debunking every single reason the devs stated for the samurai adjustments - Be it to reduce action bloat, button bloat, reduce damage curve and variability, removing restriction - so on and so forth. None of the stated reasons holds up to scrutiny. Yoshi-P himself knows the changes are vastly unpopular during the patch note reading stream, having simply skipped through the samurai changes section without elaboration. The devs are human, they make errors and their logic isn't infallible, and they asked for feedback.

4. A vast number of controller players have experessed that they have no trouble keybinding everything, and Kaiten wasn't even a problem for the few who do feel the real estate getting tight.

5. Whether samurai feels fine or not is entirely in the subjective. However, what is objective is that there are fewer ways to expend Kenki, fewer nuances to using kenki, the big hits are numerically much lower than before, and samurai contributing less to the party in an optimized endgame encounter. Specifically in the new Ultimate, Samurai is the least played melee by far.

[Xenon_S]

Now then, let me address you, Vencio.

What is your deal here? If you are simply providing feedback, then most people would not have an issue, after all yoshi-P did ask for them and I have no intention of telling you otherwise.
But you seem to be dead set on disregarding all the dissenting voices, to the point of not engaging with valid arguments. Your responses mostly focused on replying to the ad-hominem attacks against you (which, I digress, is a bad form of argument)

So let me ask, why are you seemingly so against the notion that Kaiten could be reinstated?

By your own admission (in this thread and others), you have not been playing samurai for very long, nor do you engage in any content above MSQ difficulty. In any and all content that you engage with, you will not be required to play "optimally", so to speak. In any and all content that you engage with, you did not have to press Kaiten. This will not change even if they reinstate Kaiten.

If Kaiten is reinstated, you have the option of not pressing the button. It would not affect your gameplay. It would not affect the gameplay of the majority of samurai players who engage with the game at a casual, story level.

To be charitable, are you perhaps trying to defend the devs from attacks? Know that there is a distinct difference between providing sound criticism and personal attacks. In all the threads I've seen in the NA forums, even the most aggressively worded ones address only the devs' ability to do their job, and not their personhood. And, as stated above, the devs are not infallible, they asked for feedback, you do not need to defend them.

To be, well, less-than-charitable and bordering on an ad-hominem projection against you, are you perhaps insecure about your own inability and/or inadequacy to press one more button? Are you so petulantly unable to accept the fact that the gameplay have nuances and that others are playing better than you, that you delight in the fact that others be dragged down to your level?

[Theodric_Thorne]

And you’re point….being?

Please ellaborate or peek further at my other posts

If most of your time spent playing SAM is only in PvP, it makes your opinions about Kaiten look laughably ignorant. Sure, you "play SAM" but jobs have such vastly different kits in PvE and PvP that they may as well be different jobs with similar aesthetics. I'm pretty sure Kaiten was never a part of SAM's PvP kit at any point in the history of this game.

If this was a thread about people being upset over Domino's Pizza changing the recipe for their pizza crust, you'd (hypothetically) be the guy insisting there was nothing wrong with the new crust, while conveniently forgetting to mention you've only ever ordered from their salad menu.

[Vencio]

No, on the contrary its no business of mine’s how others cherish their gameplay, nor do I influence & so shouldn’t anyone.

I am not defending anyone or the Devs at all; again only stating my own thoughts.

Drag anyone at my level? Are you making this personal? Again only stating the current state of 6.1 seems to be at ease for me & I don’t have to bring an audience with mind-like individuals as much as you. For what really?

You’re still missing the point, I appraise the amalgamated abilities and either buff or remove one’s that its up to devs to deemed whatever measurement that may be & I am happy about it.

I appreciate your input nonetheless! Thankfully its civil

[Ransu]

I don’t see the use for third eye as the premise behind that seems far to put focus on whilst in the middle of conducting my combos.

What the hell are you on about? Third eye is not part of the global cooldown....You can literally weave it in between your combos. There's zero reason not to use it. Its not part of the GCD, it reduces damage you take from a raid wide aoe and it gives kenki.

[FrogBiscuit]

Now then, let me address you, Vencio.

You are giving the guy a lot of credit. I don't believe it to be fair that he just be attacked for his opinion either...

But he has posting history going back to 6.1 (and maybe before) of these style of posts. He has been antagonistic from the start and he immediately hypocritically turns around to play the victim of being attacked 'for his opinion', when that is his very purpose in these forums, determined directly by his own actions.


People have been responding to him as they have specifically because he has effectively been begging for that type of response from the very start. And it seems pretty clear that he revels in the attention (which admittedly, many of us have afforded him) and is desperate for more. (To the point of even making a specific special thread to reiterate a point he has expressed countless times before, every chance/day he gets, despite the fact its directly contradictory to the very point he is trying to make in the first place.).


Normally I would make greater efforts to not engage in a troll... However, he has been so self defeating and backwards in what he claims, I can't help but encouraging him at this point because its comical and seemingly obvious to everyone but himself.

Everything that could be said about 6.1 SAM changes has effectively be said. I don't want the topic to die and go away. Even if SE has their head buried in the sand, I still hope the discontent gets through to them.

In the mean time, Vencio is preforming as the village clown and helping keep the topic near the top. I don't for a moment fear SE actually taking his posts seriously... If kaiten remains gone, its because they are dead set on their decisions... Not because some goofy poster destroys his own complaints in his own posted complaints...

[Vencio]

Why don’t we all create a “SAM” discord & just further express our thoughts into it…?

I’d be more than happily put further input to it; including VC.

These forums are going nowhere to no point of return,

Devs has indeed been rather silent for long without a doubt.

[cjbeagle]

What the hell are you on about? Third eye is not part of the global cooldown....You can literally weave it in between your combos. There's zero reason not to use it. Its not part of the GCD, it reduces damage you take from a raid wide aoe and it gives kenki.

I don't know what it takes to parse grey in normal-difficulty content, but I assume it doesn't involve even keeping the GCD rolling, let alone clean OGCD weaving. No surprise that Third Eye would seem superfluous to someone who can't even do the basic rotation.

But he has posting history going back to 6.1 (and maybe before) of these style of posts. He has been antagonistic from the start and he immediately hypocritically turns around to play the victim of being attacked 'for his opinion'

Not only antagonistic, but ad-hominem (coming from him) from the start. He entered the fray throwing insults as much as opinions, which is why people who are normally happy to be civil are willing to make an exception for him.