Do NOT bring Kaiten back

[FrogBiscuit]

Now then, let me address you, Vencio.

You are giving the guy a lot of credit. I don't believe it to be fair that he just be attacked for his opinion either...

But he has posting history going back to 6.1 (and maybe before) of these style of posts. He has been antagonistic from the start and he immediately hypocritically turns around to play the victim of being attacked 'for his opinion', when that is his very purpose in these forums, determined directly by his own actions.


People have been responding to him as they have specifically because he has effectively been begging for that type of response from the very start. And it seems pretty clear that he revels in the attention (which admittedly, many of us have afforded him) and is desperate for more. (To the point of even making a specific special thread to reiterate a point he has expressed countless times before, every chance/day he gets, despite the fact its directly contradictory to the very point he is trying to make in the first place.).


Normally I would make greater efforts to not engage in a troll... However, he has been so self defeating and backwards in what he claims, I can't help but encouraging him at this point because its comical and seemingly obvious to everyone but himself.

Everything that could be said about 6.1 SAM changes has effectively be said. I don't want the topic to die and go away. Even if SE has their head buried in the sand, I still hope the discontent gets through to them.

In the mean time, Vencio is preforming as the village clown and helping keep the topic near the top. I don't for a moment fear SE actually taking his posts seriously... If kaiten remains gone, its because they are dead set on their decisions... Not because some goofy poster destroys his own complaints in his own posted complaints...

[cjbeagle]

What the hell are you on about? Third eye is not part of the global cooldown....You can literally weave it in between your combos. There's zero reason not to use it. Its not part of the GCD, it reduces damage you take from a raid wide aoe and it gives kenki.

I don't know what it takes to parse grey in normal-difficulty content, but I assume it doesn't involve even keeping the GCD rolling, let alone clean OGCD weaving. No surprise that Third Eye would seem superfluous to someone who can't even do the basic rotation.

But he has posting history going back to 6.1 (and maybe before) of these style of posts. He has been antagonistic from the start and he immediately hypocritically turns around to play the victim of being attacked 'for his opinion'

Not only antagonistic, but ad-hominem (coming from him) from the start. He entered the fray throwing insults as much as opinions, which is why people who are normally happy to be civil are willing to make an exception for him.

[Xenon_S]

Normally I would make greater efforts to not engage in a troll... However, he has been so self defeating and backwards in what he claims, I can't help but encouraging him at this point because its comical and seemingly obvious to everyone but himself.
.

This.

I offered factual counterpoints to his "arguments" (TBH it is debatable if you can even call them arguments, as insubstantial as they are), and he ignored them all, choosing to only focus on responding to personal attacks.

[Vencio]

Why don’t we all create a “SAM” discord & just further express our thoughts into it…?

I’d be more than happily put further input to it; including VC.

These forums are going nowhere to no point of return,

Devs has indeed been rather silent for long without a doubt.

[xAFROx]

This.

I offered factual counterpoints to his "arguments" (TBH it is debatable if you can even call them arguments, as insubstantial as they are), and he ignored them all, choosing to only focus on responding to personal attacks.

As long as the effort was made, I think that's fine. What happens beyond that is on him. I too have responded angrily and also responded with some level of civility on the topic here and in other threads.

[Randommob]

But I am playing the game, not sure how you quantify “playing the game” with experience

Just wanna say this, Im a Sam main for 2 expac now with some experience in raiding. Im not the best sam out there or have perfect rotation. However, for me, Sam dmg come from its iaijutsu midare. The 6.1 sam, since the dmg is spread out to "balance the dmg". Sam is not consistent dmg dealer tho, its a burst. Sam has its burst window where you need to align your cd with raid buff window thus ppl need to delay. Rn, sam is not the sam i know back ShB, no synergy with team comp; evidently, im benched from my raid group from using sam. They asked me to change to other melee if possible
About Kaiten, its only a skill you need to press before midare or higanbana, now onigiri. However, its a skill that seperate decent sam with bad sam. I have seen sam do less dmg compared to dnc and its killing me inside. Also, it smooth out the flow of the rotation thus everyone want it back
Third eye is a defensive skill. Back in ShB, you have tight window to proc it with wide raid dmg. Back then, it gave you 2 options: 1 will consume kenki to "counter" and 1 is for healing. Not amazing but it give something for you to think about and up to you to use it. Now it gives flat kenki. Dumb down hard if you ask me
In short, people calling you troll or dont know how to play the game/sam because from where they stand, you do not have an understanding about how sam works/play. Furthermore, the fact that you want the job to be even more simlified is a sign. Job need to have skill ceiling so it can keep people engaging. Look at rework SMN, i played it once and i got the rotation. Not much thinking needed, choose which to summon depend on phase. Thats it. Dont need to micro management the dot, align the trance cd, refresh the skill that give both dot. Jobs require time and investment will create room to grow as a player thus keeping people in those jobs longer. Simple job will be a played once im done thing, not healthy for the game

[Randommob]

But I am playing the game, not sure how you quantify “playing the game” with experience

Just wanna say this, Im a Sam main for 2 expac now with some experience in raiding. Im not the best sam out there or have perfect rotation. However, for me, Sam dmg come from its iaijutsu midare. The 6.1 sam, since the dmg is spread out to "balance the dmg". Sam is not consistent dmg dealer tho, its a burst. Sam has its burst window where you need to align your cd with raid buff window thus ppl need to delay. Rn, sam is not the sam i know back ShB, no synergy with team comp; evidently, im benched from my raid group from using sam. They asked me to change to other melee if possible
About Kaiten, its only a skill you need to press before midare or higanbana, now onigiri. However, its a skill that seperate decent sam with bad sam. I have seen sam do less dmg compared to dnc and its killing me inside. Also, it smooth out the flow of the rotation thus everyone want it back
Third eye is a defensive skill. Back in ShB, you have tight window to proc it with wide raid dmg. Back then, it gave you 2 options: 1 will consume kenki to "counter" and 1 is for healing. Not amazing but it give something for you to think about and up to you to use it. Now it gives flat kenki. Dumb down hard if you ask me
In short, people calling you troll or dont know how to play the game/sam because from where they stand, you do not have an understanding about how sam works/play. Furthermore, the fact that you want the job to be even more simlified is a sign. Job need to have skill ceiling so it can keep people engaging. Look at rework SMN, i played it once and i got the rotation. Not much thinking needed, choose which to summon depend on phase. Thats it. Dont need to micro management the dot, align the trance cd, refresh the skill that give both dot. Jobs require time and investment will create room to grow as a player thus keeping people in those jobs longer. Simple job will be a played once im done thing, not healthy for the game

[Vencio]

I see…so that’s why the current job is not how it was back then at its strongest?

I’ve started playing SAM at early EW & barely bother with statistics & numbers.

Your post help me to delved deeper & understand it outside of my scope

[Sorzai]

Just for crying out loud look at the repetitive posts that majority of these individuals are far resistant to go through the changes,

I beg to differ but SAM feels alright the way it is, no further logic needed & I applaud for going through with the change.

I do agree the job does need to be inprovise as every other job & this takes time through trial & error.

Please remain steady & thank you devs for going through this.

EVERY job will feel alright the way it is, but that's not the point. this post just shows your lack of understanding and if you're gonna troll just keep it to yourself.

[Kaseladen]

This is now a Naruto thread