Japanese FFXIV streamer receives a suspension for using add-ons.

[Havenchild]

There's nuance to this discussion. The streamer this is about only had minor add ons that showed things like buff timers in the party list, they didn't have the full stupid invisible telegraph identifier. You can't lump everybody who uses tools of any stripe straight into full cactbot cheaters.

I despise cactbot for a lot of reasons, things like automarking and telegraph marking are stupid imo, but the little dalamud ui stuff that people are getting banned for are not the same thing.

I actually saw this plugin before, and I realized it's not OD beneficial but it does provide some insight, specifically for healers to keep track of some items. I believe these are the HUD/ UI improvements SE will be targetting to implement down the road.

It's true atm that while this particular plugin is not overly broken, it does opens the questions and the flood gates, which SE is trying to stop to some extent.

It ignites the question, how did said person do that?

- Once that is answered, said person, now incentivised to emulate installs said program.
- Said Program contains other plugins
- Curiousity of the capability of plugins expands, user does more digging

etcetc, just falls deeper down the rabbit hole, eventually leading some people to the more game-breaking things.

[einschwartz]

Look, I always tell my 7-year-old students they are not allowed to bring glitter glue for art classes.
Do they still bring them? Yes.
Do I confiscate the said glue from every single student who brought them?
No. Unless I caught them using the glue openly in the classroom.

Same applies in this matter.
It's terrible that the streamer was harrassed by a group of individuals and specifically targets to mass report him.
But it should not be a surprise if people get banned from casually displaying that they're using an add-on when it has already been told/written in TOS that it is not allowed.

[MaikoRaines]

Great community btw!

You misspelled "petty"

It's terrible that the streamer was harrassed by a group of individuals and specifically targets to mass report him. But it should not be a surprise if people get banned from casually displaying that they're using an add-on when it has already been told/written in TOS that it is not allowed.

By that logic, that really hot girl that walked down the street was harassed and attacked for what she was wearing because it was a semi revealing outfit. So I guess because she was wearing a short skirt and was walking by herself at night she was kinda asking for the harassment.

[SaberMaxwell]

I actually saw this plugin before, and I realized it's not OD beneficial but it does provide some insight, specifically for healers to keep track of some items. I believe these are the HUD/ UI improvements SE will be targetting to implement down the road.

Honestly I'm sure they're very useful, most of the ui changes seem to border on "stuff that should have been in the game already" and given that se said they plan on trying to implement them I'm sure they agree. But if it's a ui adjustment they're going to make, they shouldn't take punitive action against players beyond a personal warning. Maybe we'll disagree on that point but we can at least agree that not everything is as advantage heavy as cactbot and cactbot itself is outright cheating and yes, people using it should be banned.

[RyuDragnier]

It does provide an advantage that not everyone has. If you can see the meteor AoE in Thordan phase 2, you directly benefit from knowing the spacing needed to not blow up the meteors and fail the mechanic. <- Not directly available in the client
Things in UwU and automarkers on people that get registered for Titan Goals, is another example of something that provides direct benefit to resolve the mechanic.

You can sit there and pretend it doesn't provide an advantage but we both know it obviously does.

This right here. Anything that provides an inherent advantage with mechanics you cannot normally get ingame is considered cheating. Seeing timers on buffs/debuffs on the party list I wouldn't declare cheating, because that's info you can get ingame by clicking on somebody in the party list (and doesn't really give an unfair advantage). Knowing a specific randomized pattern is coming before others would know it's that pattern, however, IS cheating.

Example using a fight. SoS EX, after add phase the boss will randomize 4 different mechanic patterns and use them one after the other. You do not know what's coming until you see what is summoned, giving away which pattern it is. Knowing what pattern it is before others can see what is summoned gives you a massively unfair advantage and is cheating, period. Besides, most things in this game can easily be solved without such things, so it's also pretty pathetic to use such cheats, you only admit you're a bad player who can't solve it normally.

[Ransu]

Well you are just a random nobody on the internet.

You are not a dev, you are not a GM, you don't work for SE.

So yeah...

Cheating is still cheating regardless of what you think.

And when a ton of randoms stop playing and hurt squares bottom line? Then what? You can't just dismiss the issue here because you think its "cheating." ACT and dalmund have legitimate QOL issues that people will quit the game over if they get suspended over something completely harmless.

[Kolsykol]

Maybe this speaks more for how extremely shitty it is in gaming in general.
Because yes FFXIV does have the best and most pleasant community imo, but people have one negative interaction and act like it's horrible.

The only games where it might seem better are games that were so toxic that they outright removed chats altogether which is actually fairly normal nowadays.
Try play a game like Mount and Blade where you've got people spamming the N-word and building swastikas while roleplaying as a certain Mr H and where you can't login to any server without having giant arguments about jewish conspiracies and black people.
Or WoW where you've got people being kicked from guilds for being black then reinvited and asked if they're still black and then kicked again and rampant misogyny and racism in general chat.
Or like any FPS or MOBA especially if people find out you're a woman.

If people think that FFXIV is bad because petty people exist then damn are people sheltered.
Even the most toxic stuff I run into in FFXIV is EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEMELY tame by comparison to things I run into on a daily basis in other games.

[QT_Melon]

By that logic, that really hot girl that walked down the street was harassed and attacked for what she was wearing because it was a semi revealing outfit. So I guess because she was wearing a short skirt and was walking by herself at night she was kinda asking for the harassment.

This is a really bad analogy.

[flipwizardmagoo]

You misspelled "petty"



By that logic, that really hot girl that walked down the street was harassed and attacked for what she was wearing because it was a semi revealing outfit. So I guess because she was wearing a short skirt and was walking by herself at night she was kinda asking for the harassment.

Oof, no. Wearing a mini skirt isn’t illegal but harassing someone is. This is the worst analogy I’ve ever heard.

It would be more like bringing a cell phone into court when there are signs posted not to, and the lady at the front specifically asks if you have your cell phone and you say no, and once inside and seated you pull it out and then get in trouble for having it. You know the rules, you know you’re breaking them (which is bad enough), but why be so moronic as to display in full view how you’re breaking said rule?

[einschwartz]

By that logic, that really hot girl that walked down the street was harassed and attacked for what she was wearing because it was a semi revealing outfit. So I guess because she was wearing a short skirt and was walking by herself at night she was kinda asking for the harassment.

And that hot girl should have expect it. Common sense. But don't get me wrong, being harassed for it is still wrong (the other party is mostly to blame here).
If Billy in my classroom starts yelling at Sally for bringing glitter glue while it is known it is not allowed, then starts bullying Sally and throw away her glue -- that's uncalled for and Billy is the worse offender compared to Sally.

Harassment is an entirely different topic. I'm mostly touching on the case of using add-ons publicly.