SAM players are quitting

[cjbeagle]

IF the only thing holding SAM together was Kaiten, then the job was doomed anyways.

That's like saying that if a capstone is the only thing that holds an arch together, then the arch is doomed anyway. No, it's just integral to the design.

IF people suddenly lost interest due to the removal of Kaiten, then they weren't playing for enjoyment, they where playing SAM for the damage it was capable putting out.

Again, samurai was underperforming between 6.0 and 6.08, so anyone who was maining samurai wasn't doing it for the damage output - anyone who picked their main based off dps wouldn't have been playing samurai and wouldn't care about the 6.1 changes.

Also Dancer is used pretty consistently in top end Raiding, so yes META.

Almost every job is consistently used in top end raiding - that doesn't make almost every job meta, it just means the ones that are excluded because of anti-synergies are getting screwed.

Meta would be if a job is taken because it's overperforming or has specific niche value in a certain fight - dancer's personal dps is the lowest of any dps in the game and their overall contribution even counting their buffs is still below average - that's about as far from meta as you can get.

[AsiTsurugi]

That's like saying that if a capstone is the only thing that holds an arch together, then the arch is doomed anyway. No, it's just integral to the design.

This point spouted by ignorants like the one you responded to is pretty funny. You can substitute anything for that comparison. How about

"If breathing oxygen is the only thing keeping you alive, then you are doomed anyway".

Kaiten was the "oxygen" for the life of samurai. It made samurai feel like samurai. Now the job named samurai is dragoon with a katana and no group buffs.

[YukiB]

This point spouted by ignorants like the one you responded to is pretty funny. You can substitute anything for that comparison. How about

"If breathing oxygen is the only thing keeping you alive, then you are doomed anyway".

Kaiten was the "oxygen" for the life of samurai. It made samurai feel like samurai. Now the job named samurai is dragoon with a katana and no group buffs.

No no, dragoon is far more engaging.

Actually I struggle to think of a good comparison. Maybe MCH, but I actually find the job fantasy and gauge management better on MCH now. That's sad.

[AsiTsurugi]

No no, dragoon is far more engaging.

Actually I struggle to think of a good comparison. Maybe MCH, but I actually find the job fantasy and gauge management better on MCH now. That's sad.

Yeah that's true. I just don't have much experience with other roles so came up with the one melee with an extremely flat damage profile. But you are absolutely right that MCH has more engaging gauge management than this travesty of a "changes TBA" samurai.

[Ruminous]

Yeah that's true. I just don't have much experience with other roles so came up with the one melee with an extremely flat damage profile. But you are absolutely right that MCH has more engaging gauge management than this travesty of a "changes TBA" samurai.

I've said at this point they could just remove the kenki gauge on samurai. There's literally no reason for it now, so they should just get rid of it. I mean, they cut away one of the things that made the class, so why not start cutting away more? Or just put shinten to cast every 3 GCDs without needing the button. Solves the button bloat problem samurai had, right?

Naturally I'm being sarcastic, but just reading posts here, I don't think some people understand why many samurai players are happy. We're unhappy because these changes were haphazard and not well thought out. We had gone through excuse after excuse as to why we got them. They were also a half measure because one ability prevented them from designing more for the class. To put some context in it, as it was in another thread, it's like having a meaty sandwich taken away from you, bread returned to you with the ingredients coming "whenever". You're now left with a part of what something was, without anything to show for it, even if you liked what it once was. That is what infuriated people, the changes, the excuses, and the silence.

Had they decided to remove kaiten and have a plan in place for what to do other than this, I doubt people would've been as upset. You'll always have people who wont like new things and enjoy how the old is, but that's just the way things are. But I can tell you people don't enjoy being lied to and jerked around. And the forums over the past month or so since the changes were announced and implemented show this. If the devs wanted to prevent the shitstorm that came with this, they should've kept talking about the problems they felt the class had, and given time for a proper rework, much like how other classes got. Instead, they forced their ill thought out plans on us and treated us like beta testers. So, here we are.

People who complain do it because they love something and want to see it better. Yeah it's a weird thing to think about, but those who say nothing are the ones likely to leave and never let themselves be heard. And those of us complaining about the changes now want that for a role we enjoyed, because now it's a complete shell of what it was. To me, samurai's just a slower monk now. If I wanted the experience of a monk, I'd play monk. Don't know how it is for everyone else, but the consensus was people liked a little bit of complexity and thought in 6.08's samurai and 6.1's just lacks that. With content that isn't savage or higher being simple to do that you don't need even competency at the class to get through it, the question "who were these changes designed for" comes to mind and the answer is I still don't know.

[AsiTsurugi]

snip

You are absolutely right that I am very unhappy with the extremely unsatisfying of a shell that samurai has become post-6.1 changes, and you are also right that, speaking strictly for myself here, I would definitely have been understanding of any proper explanation instead of whatever jumbled catchphrases they decided to throw at us, and possibly a timeline for when changes might be forthcoming, instead of being lied to and jerked around (which I think this dev team has gotten very comfortable doing. Remember the posts from Yoshida blaming our internet connection for the 90k errors in queue at the start of Endwalker, till some good samaritan proved that it was SE's login servers functioning like it was designed in the 80's? I do).

I think I said this in a previous post, but my first post on these forums, or any kind of public posting regarding balance in general or samurai specifically, happened about 2-3 days ago. I took this goddamn travesty into all kinds of content over multiple weeks. Not once did it feel "good" to play, despite mathematically doing 1.6% more damage. I don't care for the 1.6% more damage, I don't care for the imaginary "damage variance" that only samurai seems to have in this dev team's eyes (because Double Down, Confiteor, Shadowbringer, Hyosho Ranryu etc. definitely do not exist), I just want the job to feel fun to play. When samurai was clearly doing insufficient damage at the start of 6.0 through 6.08, I could not care less, and consequently never posted or complained anywhere, because the job was fun and it *felt* like I was playing samurai, and I still did all the content on that job.

[Matrias]

Yea i easily chose it as my main job but now it just feels bad, i dont have to monitor my kenki pretty much at all and just press an ogcd to spend it every second cooldown outside of 2 min window it just feels bad i liked micro managing the bar so id have enough for finishers, auto crit added to skills makes gearing for crit feel bad now too even tho you still do it for increased crit damage feels like say 30% of the main stat you go for is now out the window.

Have been playing other jobs in the meantime but i hope they bring kaiten back otherwise i have no job im drawn to at all.

Been playing Reaper its rotation is passable but i despise the particle effects on the shroud rotation personally, it looks awful you cant see your animations its just a purple blob its the first job where ive wanted to reduce my own spell fx.