In regards to something involving the main cast

[kaynide]

I'm not sure that's entirely correct though.

Several points they said that outside of our world, the universe is mostly made of Dynamis-Energy. It was explained sorta-kinda like Dark Matter would be.

Meteion was made to pull Dynamis to survive space, since there wouldn't be much Aether to feed her. If it is literally emotional energy, this seems like an odd choice especially if you were unsure there was even life out there.

I read it as just an energy form that //reacts// to strong forms of emotions, not that it is emotional energy itself.

[Lauront]

I mean, we went from risky ocean crossings using sails to landing on the moon in like, 150 years.. without any magic.

If Venat could make an entire moon with a moon base, or Lahabrea his own personal "Hell", and indeed Hermes/Fandaniel could make Meteion, I just don't find it hard to believe they could make something dynamis powered and entirely void of emotions (aka immune to despair).

Personally, I had HOPED the Omega project was Ascian based as an attempt to do just that only it failed- as in Meteion simply can not be defeated using force and it took emotion to beat her (power of friendship, and all). Where the Omegas lost, and (wrongly) decided the only way to defeat her in a rematch was to fight other things and get stronger.

There was an interesting discussion starting around here (there's a bit more further back) and ending around here (which you can work back through) on this. I think it's fair to say they could've engineered or found workarounds in that timespan. As you can glean from this interaction, it is very much a debatable topic, much as some would like to pretend there is absolutely no way they could've found a workaround.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Just because it’s logical though doesn’t dispute that it still makes her effectively the culprit behind everything. All of the things Emet and the ascians do is effectively on her hands.

In the end i kind of wonder, if her end goal truly was getting rid of Meteion, why not sunder a small group of people if that’s what it takes? I mean the wol was able to beat her with what, 5-6 other sundered? Who weren’t even 1/14 they were like 8 to 9/14 lol, and could manipulate dynamis just fine.

[KariTheFox]

The ascians were people with free will and agency, they could have simply tried to live in the new sundered world and try uplift the sundered races that emerged in all the shards. Instead of doing all that manipulating thier societies into rejoining stuff.

I think it's a little absurd to hold Venat responsible for thier actions.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The ascians were people with free will and agency, they could have simply tried to live in the new sundered world and try uplift the sundered races that emerged in all the shards. Instead of doing all that manipulating thier societies into rejoining stuff.

I think it's a little absurd to hold Venat responsible for thier actions.

But venat was literally relying on it happening. The main point is SHE KNEW what would happen, and still did it anyways. She knew they would rejoin shards, she knew billions of lives would be lost and she still went through with it anyway instead of looking for some other way.

[KariTheFox]

But venat was literally relying on it happening. The main point is SHE KNEW what would happen, and still did it anyways. She knew they would rejoin shards, she knew billions of lives would be lost and she still went through with it anyway instead of looking for some other way.

Incorrect, as EaraGrace has tried to communicate to you several times with direct quotes, Venat did not know whether or not her actions would lead to the timeline the WoL was in. And was simply using her best judgment and trying to react in the moment to unfolding events as they happened.

It isn't until the start of Endwalker that she's sure our timelines had converged and starts actively pushing up to complete the loop and return to Elpis.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Incorrect, as EaraGrace has tried to communicate to you several times with direct quotes, Venat did not know whether or not her actions would lead to the timeline the WoL was in. And was simply using her best judgment and trying to react in the moment to unfolding events as they happened.

It isn't until the start of Endwalker that she's sure our timelines had converged and starts actively pushing up to complete the loop and return to Elpis.

She knew it was a possibility at the very least though. That in itself, especially with the fact in real time events, she would know by the first rejoining if history was repeated, makes her responsible. She required events to be very specific with very little deviation. If anything was out of place things could be drastically different. Again i ask, why not sunder a small group of people if 6-7 sundered was enough? Her mentality at that time was clearly not there, and the fact she went to such extremes without looking at any other possible methods is just even more damning evidence of her being not so good.

Also in case it wasnt obvious, i was addressing the scenario Eara spoke about on her relying on that.

[KariTheFox]

Again i ask, why not sunder a small group of people if 6-7 sundered was enough?

Because it's not just about having the sundered/unsundered flag turned on. It's about the life experiences to contrast with the dynamis-based despair. A small group of sundered who... idk, were cared for by the ancients/Loloporrits and then flung to Ultima Thule would not have say, Thancred's experience as a street urchin who was adopted by a kindly old man, or Eistinien's experience with the Dragonsong War. It's not just about being sundered, it's also about existing in the context of a world with adversity and despair that can be overcome.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Because it's not just about having the sundered/unsundered flag turned on. It's about the life experiences to contrast with the dynamis-based despair. A small group of sundered who... idk, were cared for by the ancients/Loloporrits and then flung to Ultima Thule would not have say, Thancred's experience as a street urchin who was adopted by a kindly old man, or Eistinien's experience with the Dragonsong War. It's not just about being sundered, it's also about existing in the context of a world with adversity and despair that can be overcome.

So now we’re just back to the ancients didn’t suffer enough? The ancients literally suffered through the final days and were able to survive through it. Their final days was also immensely worse than the sundered final days were…so they clearly suffered more overall. Also, outside of the crystal braves incident which idk if you’d even count that, how exactly did Alphinaud suffer? Urianger was what….moenbryda? lol. So if it takes just losing one person and dealing with that to be able to combat Meteion i’d say the ancients would fare just fine.

[Luizgazen]

I mean, we went from risky ocean crossings using sails to landing on the moon in like, 150 years.. without any magic.

If Venat could make an entire moon with a moon base, or Lahabrea his own personal "Hell", and indeed Hermes/Fandaniel could make Meteion, I just don't find it hard to believe they could make something dynamis powered and entirely void of emotions (aka immune to despair).

Personally, I had HOPED the Omega project was Ascian based as an attempt to do just that only it failed- as in Meteion simply can not be defeated using force and it took emotion to beat her (power of friendship, and all). Where the Omegas lost, and (wrongly) decided the only way to defeat her in a rematch was to fight other things and get stronger.

The ancients never learned what hit them, they only knew that the aether currents were stagnating, and so created Zodiark to fix that... they were only treating the symptoms without curing the disease, if Venat had told what she knew they probably could have solved the problem, maybe sent a hit squad of powerful familiars to follow Venat's beacon and defeat meteion like she sent a hit squad of sundered after millenia of meteion getting stronger