DPS/Healers pulling in dungeons

[rewd]

So now I have questions for you.
1. Why do you think I argue in bad faith? Do my questions not stem from logic?
2. What mathematical/statistical merits do you think make DPS the better pullers? -I’m bored and impatient aren’t statistics.

"If the tank AFKs it is customary to wait for them unless they say go ahead without me". No, if someone AFKs, it is customary to wait for them. The role they play is completely irrelevant, which is why you should be more precise on what "waiting for the tank" actually entails.

1. Because you dodged my question and came up with a false equivalence. You are still arguing in bad faith because there is no way you could read the previous replies and deduce "Yep, these guys are saying that DPS/healers should actually always pull and that they are objectivelly better equipped to do so". What we are saying is that who pulls ultimately doesn't matter.
2. Wrong question aside (see my previous reply), we do have reasons as to why a DPS pulling is not the end of the world/optimal. Some DPS have Arm's Lenght, which is (also) a mitigation tool. Pulling a group of enemies, letting AL pop and letting the tank take over is optimal. DPS also have cooldowns and buffs to keep up. Should a BRD lose a fully charged Pitch Perfect because they can't pull? Should a DNC lose a Standard (or worse, Technical) Step because they can't pull? Dualcast? Summon charges? And so on? For no good reason at all?

4. It may be an unspoken rule. But I don’t think it should be. Hence an official statement or guide would be helpful.

This doesn't make sense. You think a tank should always pull - valid, it's your opinion. We are debating. There's is no official statement nor guide that speaks against a non-tank pulling. We have, however, an official statement that clearly says that behaviour you are condoning in this very topic is forbidden/reportable. So what gives?

[Ath192]

"If the tank AFKs it is customary to wait for them unless they say go ahead without me". No, if someone AFKs, it is customary to wait for them. The role they play is completely irrelevant

Did you read the rest of the sentence? I'd say this was selectively clipped in bad faith...

We have, however, an official statement that clearly says that behaviour you are condoning in this very topic is forbidden/reportable.

I gave you examples of how a DPS pulling could be perceived as aiding the enemy. So the rule isn't as clear cut as you make it out to be. Are you also choosing to ignore that?

Some DPS have Arm's Lenght, which is (also) a mitigation tool. Pulling a group of enemies, letting AL pop and letting the tank take over is optimal.

No.... Its not lol. in an optimal scenario a tank hits sprint lands an AOE on each pack until they reach a natural wall. Getting the DPS to pull off arms length on 2 packs of mobs and then having the tank get aggro off him before the dps dies would be a bit of a nightmare. Especially because that ability sometimes has a weird delay and doesn't go off on the first hit. Not to mention tanks also have them and you would be burning some of the healers OGCDs on the DPS unless they choose to leave him with 30-40% HP

[rewd]

Did you read the rest of the sentence? I'd say this was selectively clipped in bad faith...

More like "Posts have a character limit and I don't have to post a comment and then edit it to circumvent the issue because people with good arguments don't need to nitpick and deviate attention". Clearly I was wrong.

I gave you examples of how a DPS pulling could be perceived as aiding the enemy. So the rule isn't as clear cut as you make it out to be. Are you also choosing to ignore that?

"Imagine you are in Bardam. Imagine there is a DPS pulling. Also imagine that the tank is apparently in Narnia, busy on the toilet because they can't take aggro. Also imagine an inexperienced healer that have their attention this divided [between what?]. Checkmate, undeniable proof that the ToS is unclear because reasons.

I appreciate the creativity, though. Also, you either aid or don't aid an enemy. There is no such thing as "perceived aid".

No.... Its not lol. in an optimal scenario a tank hits sprint lands an AOE on each pack until they reach a natural wall. Getting the DPS to pull off arms length on 2 packs of mobs and then having the tank get aggro off him before the dps dies would be a bit of a nightmare. Especially because that ability sometimes has a weird delay and doesn't go off on the first hit. Not to mention tanks also have them and you would be burning some of the healers OGCDs on the DPS unless they choose to leave him with 30-40% HP

It is optimal, you are arguing that it is hard to pull off (which is... funny), not that it isn't a benefit. Not only DPS have ways to heal themselves (especially melee), but:

a) unless you play with comatose monkeys, a non-tank sitting at 30-40% HP during a pull (assuming they even get that low...) should hardly concern you as they are not meant to take damage
b) they will be healed by incidental AoE healing (Assize, Earthly Star, Whispering Dawn, Physis, just to name a few)
c) you can commit the cardinal sin of getting good™ and put regen/shield on them before the pull starts

PS: you are dodging questions again. We are way past the point where I think you might just be missing them in good faith.

[Ath192]

More like "Posts have a character limit and I don't have to post a comment and then edit it to circumvent the issue because people with good arguments don't need to nitpick and deviate attention". Clearly I was wrong.


"Imagine you are in Bardam. Imagine there is a DPS pulling. Also imagine that the tank is apparently in Narnia, busy on the toilet because they can't take aggro. Also imagine an inexperienced healer that have their attention this divided [between what?]. Checkmate, undeniable proof that the ToS is unclear because reasons.

I appreciate the creativity, though. Also, you either aid or don't aid an enemy. There is no such thing as "perceived aid".


It is optimal, you are arguing that it is hard to pull off (which is... funny), not that it isn't a benefit. Not only DPS have ways to heal themselves (especially melee), but:

a) unless you play with comatose monkeys, a non-tank sitting at 30-40% HP during a pull (assuming they even get that low...) should hardly concern you as they are not meant to take damage
b) they will be healed by incidental AoE healing (Assize, Earthly Star, Whispering Dawn, Physis, just to name a few)
c) you can commit the cardinal sin of getting good™ and put regen/shield on them before the pull starts

PS: you are dodging questions again. We are way past the point where I think you might just be missing them in good faith.

I think the person arguing in bad faith is you. But at the end of the day you are a person that thinks it’s optimal for the dps to pull so they can land arms length on the mobs lol. So. Enough said.