DPS/Healers pulling in dungeons

[Ath192]

I mean, the logic is sort of already here in this thread, is it not?
Sure, tanks have higher enmity skills and higher defense, but that doesn't mean that when dps or healers pull, they can't just grab that aggro if it's brought to them. It's...really not that deep my friend. This isn't algebra.

Edit... *I'm* not arguing that though. You just said something almost everyone universally agrees with. Its the DPS pulling and thinking they are in right for it that I don't buy. Granted high ilvl players and vets can trivialize things but imo its a bad take when the game combines high and low skill players by design. People only like seeing the perspective that best suits them..

[BaconBits]

YPYT advocates displaying more maidenless behavior yet again

[Nestama]

If a healer/DPS pulls, just use your AoE rotation and you're golden (use mitigations for trash. They're not really needed for the wet noodle bosses). They're not making your job harder, tanking is the easiest job to play in this game (thanks to Shadowbringers), tanks do not control the pace, every single dungeon plays out mostly exactly the same (♫trash pack, boss, trash pack, boss, trash pack, final boss♫) etc etc.

[rewd]

Did you read the rest of the sentence? I'd say this was selectively clipped in bad faith...

More like "Posts have a character limit and I don't have to post a comment and then edit it to circumvent the issue because people with good arguments don't need to nitpick and deviate attention". Clearly I was wrong.

I gave you examples of how a DPS pulling could be perceived as aiding the enemy. So the rule isn't as clear cut as you make it out to be. Are you also choosing to ignore that?

"Imagine you are in Bardam. Imagine there is a DPS pulling. Also imagine that the tank is apparently in Narnia, busy on the toilet because they can't take aggro. Also imagine an inexperienced healer that have their attention this divided [between what?]. Checkmate, undeniable proof that the ToS is unclear because reasons.

I appreciate the creativity, though. Also, you either aid or don't aid an enemy. There is no such thing as "perceived aid".

No.... Its not lol. in an optimal scenario a tank hits sprint lands an AOE on each pack until they reach a natural wall. Getting the DPS to pull off arms length on 2 packs of mobs and then having the tank get aggro off him before the dps dies would be a bit of a nightmare. Especially because that ability sometimes has a weird delay and doesn't go off on the first hit. Not to mention tanks also have them and you would be burning some of the healers OGCDs on the DPS unless they choose to leave him with 30-40% HP

It is optimal, you are arguing that it is hard to pull off (which is... funny), not that it isn't a benefit. Not only DPS have ways to heal themselves (especially melee), but:

a) unless you play with comatose monkeys, a non-tank sitting at 30-40% HP during a pull (assuming they even get that low...) should hardly concern you as they are not meant to take damage
b) they will be healed by incidental AoE healing (Assize, Earthly Star, Whispering Dawn, Physis, just to name a few)
c) you can commit the cardinal sin of getting good™ and put regen/shield on them before the pull starts

PS: you are dodging questions again. We are way past the point where I think you might just be missing them in good faith.

[Coletergeist]

People only like seeing the perspective that best suits them..

This is ironic.

[MiaShino]

Huh morbid curiosity overtook a Mia and oh lookie! Level 90 Warrior and golds and purples everywhere. Am now thinking troll and I wasted the time but at the least I hopes my posts help someone..

Bowing out of this here thread, twas fun.

[Faafetai]

This is ironic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4bIXVTsJck

I don't know why but as I read this I thought of this song and picturing someone singing this song poorly in abject horror of the entire conversation unfolding. Similar to the beauty that can be found in my heart will go on played poorly on the recorder.

D'aw. I feel like I'm the only person on the planet who likes the original a lot more than the Disturbed version. They're different in feel and the original feels a bit chilling to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAEppFUWLfc

This is my favorite version. I love Disturbed's version as well because David Draiman is just amazing, but I was always most fond of Simon and Garfunkel though the studio version is always missing that small amount of atmosphere the live versions have the boxer as well is one of my favorites too though Mumford and Sons does a gosh darn good job with their cover of the song.

[Broken_Wind]

This thread was never meant to be about:
Big pulls: tanks typically all learn this anyway. Its rude beyond belief to try to force this on a sprout in a 1-50 dungeon, but generally beyond that its easy enough to coach someone into it
YPYT: As long as you bring the mobs to me, Ill grab the aggro. No issue here.
Popping sprint: The funny thing is, when I DPS I find its still more common to NOT pop sprint in the lower level dungeons. I have *never* once seen someone suggest it in a party. that said, if I have my invuln skill Ill typically use sprint healer dependent.

This is more about those times where I am waiting for everyone to zone into next area (healer in particular). Or when I want to take a drink. Or maybe someone didn't know a mechanic on the boss we just killed and I'm pointing it out for next time

[ForteNightshade]

Does a sprout with no job, viewing cutscene and their level not being sync with the pop up "a member is new to this duty" need to tell he is new or it's obvious enough?

Yes, actually. For exactly the reason MintnHoney said. Half the time I don't even pay attention to the new player bonus because I'm either alt-tabbing while the cut scene plays or doing something else. I doubt I'm the only one. It's better for new players to announce they're new to tanking. Granted, in my experience, sprouts are often far more willing to try going outside their comfort zones than the "veteran" players who can't be bothered to learn how to tank properly.

They don't listen. I've seen it as the tank and healer and one of the dps. And I've seen a couple of the reasons why in this thread. The dps or healer are bored or have the "You gon' learn" type mentality that they get to decide where the tank's limits are, even if the tank has directly stated them. And people just think this is okay. They don't have to think about anyone else in their party, just themselves.

Best thing a tank can do is just try to AoE so nobody can try to claim they were griefing and if there's a wipe, well, they did try to warn them.

They don't have to. The point is protecting yourself by essentially intent. If the tank says something beforehand and the DPS still run ahead, then a GM is far more likely to wave it off because an attempt was made. Contrast this to immediately throwing a fit the Bard grabbed some friends and turning off your tank stance. Only one looks like intentional griefing, which is all the GMs are about. As for DPS or Healers being bored. It really boils down to majority rules. If three people wanna go fast, why should the tank be allowed to dictate otherwise. At least give it a chance and see how things go. Most people are fine with a tank who tries and fails compared to a tank refusing to even put their foot forward. It also depends on the dungeon you're doing. I'm sorry but you're no longer new at Holminster Switch. If you still don't know how to rotate CDs for big pulls, go back to the ARR and learn. Don't queue into DF and demand everyone else adjust. We have Trusts for that.

[Ath192]

More like "Posts have a character limit and I don't have to post a comment and then edit it to circumvent the issue because people with good arguments don't need to nitpick and deviate attention". Clearly I was wrong.


"Imagine you are in Bardam. Imagine there is a DPS pulling. Also imagine that the tank is apparently in Narnia, busy on the toilet because they can't take aggro. Also imagine an inexperienced healer that have their attention this divided [between what?]. Checkmate, undeniable proof that the ToS is unclear because reasons.

I appreciate the creativity, though. Also, you either aid or don't aid an enemy. There is no such thing as "perceived aid".


It is optimal, you are arguing that it is hard to pull off (which is... funny), not that it isn't a benefit. Not only DPS have ways to heal themselves (especially melee), but:

a) unless you play with comatose monkeys, a non-tank sitting at 30-40% HP during a pull (assuming they even get that low...) should hardly concern you as they are not meant to take damage
b) they will be healed by incidental AoE healing (Assize, Earthly Star, Whispering Dawn, Physis, just to name a few)
c) you can commit the cardinal sin of getting good™ and put regen/shield on them before the pull starts

PS: you are dodging questions again. We are way past the point where I think you might just be missing them in good faith.

I think the person arguing in bad faith is you. But at the end of the day you are a person that thinks it’s optimal for the dps to pull so they can land arms length on the mobs lol. So. Enough said.