button bloat

[Shirala]

I honestly don't get how 111 is "easier" than 123 when the latter is clearly a sequence of keys one next to the other that your finger runs through... unless you're scattering your filler combo through very distant keys for some reason. Maybe for someone with hand move impairment that would indeed be a game changer in regards making it much easier? You know what is harder? Monk branching combos, because that one you have to be aware of other elements to decide if it's 1-2-6, 1-5-3, etc...

At best, 2-3 extra vacant keys allow them to add more oGCD abilities to weave in between these combos. They could drink more from the 6.1 pvp job action design, because that's proof that even with a tiny amount of buttons is possible to create engaging interactions among actions... Imagine if such premise would be applied to the PVE design when that can potentially host 3-4x times more actions.

If it was just 1-2-3 it would be fine. Nobody is asking for 1-1-1. What we have a problem with is when it is, in reality, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-alt1-alt2-alt-3, etc. Most jobs require 3 full hotbars of buttons. That is neither possible nor fun for me, and that is why I use macros to stack skills.

[ZedxKayn]

If it was just 1-2-3 it would be fine. Nobody is asking for 1-1-1. What we have a problem with is when it is, in reality, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-alt1-alt2-alt-3, etc. Most jobs require 3 full hotbars of buttons. That is neither possible nor fun for me, and that is why I use macros to stack skills.

Might wanna look at MMO mice.

[Nothv13]

Might wanna look at MMO mice.

I have an MMO mouse, and a Azeron Cyborg and still find this game has extra buttons just to have extra buttons. To me, PvP not only has more interesting abilities, but also more class identity since the rework, which shows you do not need excessive buttons to have a well design and fun class flow.

[IdowhatIwant]

I have an MMO mouse, and a Azeron Cyborg and still find this game has extra buttons just to have extra buttons. To me, PvP not only has more interesting abilities, but also more class identity since the rework, which shows you do not need excessive buttons to have a well design and fun class flow.

I think pvp has interesting abilities and better class identity, but it is very bare. In PVE no job actually requires 3 full hot bars, and about 25% of your skills are for niche situations that you likely do not need on your hot bar and about 25% of skills that could be combined to 1 key or an upgrade of a skill. I would probably say that about 45% of button bloat is people being unintelligent enough to set up better keybinds for there classes. If you are using 1-0 button bloat isn't the problem your keybinding is. I would not mind seeing the class identity from PvP go into PvE.

[Nothv13]

I think pvp has interesting abilities and better class identity, but it is very bare. In PVE no job actually requires 3 full hot bars, and about 25% of your skills are for niche situations that you likely do not need on your hot bar and about 25% of skills that could be combined to 1 key or an upgrade of a skill. I would probably say that about 45% of button bloat is people being unintelligent enough to set up better keybinds for there classes. If you are using 1-0 button bloat isn't the problem your keybinding is. I would not mind seeing the class identity from PvP go into PvE.

I do not think PvE should be as bare as PvP is. PvP just shows that you don't need tons of buttons to have strong class identity and engaging gameplay. Button bloat comes down to feeling. As I said I have an azeron 20+ buttons within less than a centimeter of my finger and an MMO mouse and I still feel button bloat exists in PvE. Maybe if that bloat lead to classes being rather unique rather than homogenized, I'd feel different, but it doesn't.

[forsakee]

If it was just 1-2-3 it would be fine. Nobody is asking for 1-1-1. What we have a problem with is when it is, in reality, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-alt1-alt2-alt-3, etc. Most jobs require 3 full hotbars of buttons. That is neither possible nor fun for me, and that is why I use macros to stack skills.

Sounds like you just need to practice more, before stepping into more difficult content spend like 2 hours hitting a target dummy. Once it's second nature and you can do your correct rotation step into extreme and work up. I main sam/reaper and play on ps4 controller, it toke hours of practice before I was ready for savage/ultimate. I don't know if you care about your dps but macro's effect your gcd. I'm curious what job you play because my dancer has half the abilities as sam ever consider re-rolling?

[Raikai]

If it was just 1-2-3 it would be fine. Nobody is asking for 1-1-1. What we have a problem with is when it is, in reality, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-alt1-alt2-alt-3, etc. Most jobs require 3 full hotbars of buttons. That is neither possible nor fun for me, and that is why I use macros to stack skills.

When I mean 1-1-1 it's the combo itself within the same key, not the same action repeated over and over. There are just as many asking for that as there are ones asking to stay as it is. I just feel that the excuse of that device (that is already used in PVP) dumbing the game down is arguable, given the potential of the vacant buttons to host new actions that would otherwise crowd the hotbars with some jobs.

Probably the only exception to the idea are jobs with branching filler combos like Monk.

Also.. XIV is a MMO with vertical growth. Although it handles much better than WoW does (literally overhauling every class system every xpac), there is gonna be a wall at some point where you need to overhaul a job, even if there's nothing wrong with it, and condensing combos or merging redundant buttons (draw+play) is a way to mitigate that a little bit. Well, unless a job doesn't get anything new other than just visual upgrades, which I assume that people would be dissatisfied with just that.

[Shirala]

When I mean 1-1-1 it's the combo itself within the same key, not the same action repeated over and over. There are just as many asking for that as there are ones asking to stay as it is. I just feel that the excuse of that device (that is already used in PVP) dumbing the game down is arguable, given the potential of the vacant buttons to host new actions that would otherwise crowd the hotbars with some jobs.

Probably the only exception to the idea are jobs with branching filler combos like Monk.

Also.. XIV is a MMO with vertical growth. Although it handles much better than WoW does (literally overhauling every class system every xpac), there is gonna be a wall at some point where you need to overhaul a job, even if there's nothing wrong with it, and condensing combos or merging redundant buttons (draw+play) is a way to mitigate that a little bit. Well, unless a job doesn't get anything new other than just visual upgrades, which I assume that people would be dissatisfied with just that.

Ah, I understand now, and I agree. There really needs to be an option (I said OPTION, people!) to allow combos to be handled the way they are in PvP.

I play Monk with stacked skill macros. I am obviously far from cutting edge DPS, but I really do enjoy playing the class that way because I am better able to react to what's around me, rather than staring at hotbars.

And to all the folks in this thread who suggested that I "practice more" or get better equipment, I really hope that you never have to deal with a disability.