button bloat

[forsakee]

If it was just 1-2-3 it would be fine. Nobody is asking for 1-1-1. What we have a problem with is when it is, in reality, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-alt1-alt2-alt-3, etc. Most jobs require 3 full hotbars of buttons. That is neither possible nor fun for me, and that is why I use macros to stack skills.

Sounds like you just need to practice more, before stepping into more difficult content spend like 2 hours hitting a target dummy. Once it's second nature and you can do your correct rotation step into extreme and work up. I main sam/reaper and play on ps4 controller, it toke hours of practice before I was ready for savage/ultimate. I don't know if you care about your dps but macro's effect your gcd. I'm curious what job you play because my dancer has half the abilities as sam ever consider re-rolling?

[Raikai]

If it was just 1-2-3 it would be fine. Nobody is asking for 1-1-1. What we have a problem with is when it is, in reality, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-alt1-alt2-alt-3, etc. Most jobs require 3 full hotbars of buttons. That is neither possible nor fun for me, and that is why I use macros to stack skills.

When I mean 1-1-1 it's the combo itself within the same key, not the same action repeated over and over. There are just as many asking for that as there are ones asking to stay as it is. I just feel that the excuse of that device (that is already used in PVP) dumbing the game down is arguable, given the potential of the vacant buttons to host new actions that would otherwise crowd the hotbars with some jobs.

Probably the only exception to the idea are jobs with branching filler combos like Monk.

Also.. XIV is a MMO with vertical growth. Although it handles much better than WoW does (literally overhauling every class system every xpac), there is gonna be a wall at some point where you need to overhaul a job, even if there's nothing wrong with it, and condensing combos or merging redundant buttons (draw+play) is a way to mitigate that a little bit. Well, unless a job doesn't get anything new other than just visual upgrades, which I assume that people would be dissatisfied with just that.

[Shirala]

When I mean 1-1-1 it's the combo itself within the same key, not the same action repeated over and over. There are just as many asking for that as there are ones asking to stay as it is. I just feel that the excuse of that device (that is already used in PVP) dumbing the game down is arguable, given the potential of the vacant buttons to host new actions that would otherwise crowd the hotbars with some jobs.

Probably the only exception to the idea are jobs with branching filler combos like Monk.

Also.. XIV is a MMO with vertical growth. Although it handles much better than WoW does (literally overhauling every class system every xpac), there is gonna be a wall at some point where you need to overhaul a job, even if there's nothing wrong with it, and condensing combos or merging redundant buttons (draw+play) is a way to mitigate that a little bit. Well, unless a job doesn't get anything new other than just visual upgrades, which I assume that people would be dissatisfied with just that.

Ah, I understand now, and I agree. There really needs to be an option (I said OPTION, people!) to allow combos to be handled the way they are in PvP.

I play Monk with stacked skill macros. I am obviously far from cutting edge DPS, but I really do enjoy playing the class that way because I am better able to react to what's around me, rather than staring at hotbars.

And to all the folks in this thread who suggested that I "practice more" or get better equipment, I really hope that you never have to deal with a disability.

[KariTheFox]

I honestly don't get how 111 is "easier" than 123 when the latter is clearly a sequence of keys one next to the other that your finger runs through.

This might be a GNB specific thing but for me - the fact that I want to enter into no mercy with three cartridges + at least keen edge "banked" means that my rotation is going to involve hitting 1 - NM, all my damage abilities - 23 + burst strike, if I want to fit everything I can into no mercy. And sometimes after my gnashing fang combo, if I'm not paying attention I can autopilot going back to 1 instead of hitting 2 or 3 like I should be, resulting in a pretty severe dps loss. Collapsing my standard 123 into a single button would completely remove my capacity to ever make that error, and I wouldn't exactly be thrilled about that.

But if SE absolutely has to remove "button bloat" I hope they do that before removing anything else.

[gamerseb]

The difficulty in a job is NOT to press 1, 2 and 3 in sequence. Except in the few classes that have extended, non-linear combos and you need to combine them (SAM/MNK for instance).

In a DRG, for instance, the difficulty of the job is learning when to enter Life of the Dragon, remembering to apply all oGCDs when necessary and not missing out, choose which combo to apply, and lining up with buffs. The difficulty of the job is NOT learning how to press 1-2-3 in sequence.

The 2 main combos and the AoE combo could safely be folded into a button, while leaving "Wheeling Thrust" and "Fang and Claw" out, while retaining everything that's interesting from the job, and allowing controller players to have a better time.

[IdowhatIwant]

There are ways to address button bloat, but Yoshi P has show us he obviously does not know how to correctly with such fine examples as High Jump into Mirage Dive, Minuet into Pitch Perfect, and removing Kaiten. The lesser of the two evils is deal with the bloat, make good key binds, and don't put everything on the bar some of that crap you will never press anyways.

The less we let them touch jobs, the better off we are in all honesty.

[Imora]

Most people that complain about it are clickers who never bothered to learn how to keybind.

I'm on a controller but thanks.

[SirPawsies]

I think the biggest issues with some of the "button bloat reductions" are how it can be conflicting design within itself to have abilities that behave substantally different to the ones they're linked with: [High] Jump (animation-locking jump action) -> Mirage Dive (ranged attack, can be executed on any condition.) Wanderer's Minuet (45 second Buff that adds an action and interaction) -> Pitch Perfect. (Added oGCD based on stacks that you press with considerable frequency.) Notice, for instance, how now BRD has 2 songs you press and forget and now for the third one you have to keep it close on your hotbar
I'm not really going to include Kaiten in this because as much as I miss Kaiten already, the changes in damage output to Samurai and the way Midare/Oni Namikiri work are substantial enough for me to accept the removal of it.
Even when logically you can make the argument that you can only execute one after the other, it still feels wrong in a sense of feedback for what you're doing. Imagine if Continuation just built up off of Gnashing Fang and the whole 6 actions, GCD and oGCD follow-ups, were all bound to a single button. That's not remotely as interesting feedback-wise as alternating between the both of them as you'd do now.

I think the direction the FF14 team is taking regarding streamlining jobs is getting dangerous, and they should look into regressing some of these changes as they, in my opinion, reduce some of the fun and skill expression that the game allows for

[Nothv13]

Imagine if Continuation just built up off of Gnashing Fang and the whole 6 actions, GCD and oGCD follow-ups, were all bound to a single button. That's not remotely as interesting feedback-wise as alternating between the both of them as you'd do now.

You do know that this is a common macro and a certain mod does exactly this right?

[SirPawsies]

You do know that this is a common macro and a certain mod does exactly this right?

One of those doesn't work very well due to the macro system (intentionally) not queueing actions the same way regular actions do; the other breaks ToS and I personally dislike a lot on the principle of making you play less of the game.

But yeah they exist I guess