What's up with the cone aoes hate?

[Sani2341]

Even if WAR was consistently cones, which would be better than the inconsistency, cones are still inferior to 360 degree AoEs.

Still not seeing how with the 6.0 impelemntation the longer cone (goign from the PC) was in anyway not better than the follow up AoE.

During a pull, mobs naturally crowd around the tank, forcing you to constantly reposition every time you use your cone attack. Maybe this wasn't all that apparent before when you were forced to reposition every single GCD anyway

You'll still need to reposition regularly to dodge trash pack AoEs. So that's not changing much if anything. Pretty Sure I was moving around as much on GNB just to avoid AoEs as I was with WAR to avoid them, and keep everything in the cone.

but if they just made all of WAR's AoEs cones, you'd still be playing it the same stupid janky way.

I mean it was more than fine back when we just had the Cone for spammable AoE. (well for a given value of Spammable, deleting TP was one of the few welcome changes ShB brought)

[Seraphor]

I mean it was more than fine back when we just had the Cone for spammable AoE. (well for a given value of Spammable, deleting TP was one of the few welcome changes ShB brought)

Agree to disagree. The cone is the sole reason I've refused to play WAR for the past 5 years and can now finally play it.

[Sani2341]

Agree to disagree. The cone is the sole reason I've refused to play WAR for the past 5 years and can now finally play it.

As if there werent 2-3 other tanks with no cone aoe to play during that time.

Now there's only Tanks without cones, so everyone who prefers those is now Out of tanks to play, just so those that dislike them can have a 30% larger selection of tanks to their taste.

[Seraphor]

As if there werent 2-3 other tanks with no cone aoe to play during that time.

Now there's only Tanks without cones, so everyone who prefers those is now Out of tanks to play, just so those that dislike them can have a 30% larger selection of tanks to their taste.

I might agree with this if, like I said, mobs didn't naturally reposition themselves around the tank, and there were two tanks who utilised just cone AoEs. Then you could claim it was simply a different paradigm. But it's not, it works counter to the base mechanics of dungeon pulls.

[Kuritzkale]

I might agree with this if, like I said, mobs didn't naturally reposition themselves around the tank, and there were two tanks who utilised just cone AoEs. Then you could claim it was simply a different paradigm. But it's not, it works counter to the base mechanics of dungeon pulls.

Weird then, that for... what, 9 years now? Warrior has had a cone AOE on overpower, and it's been perfectly fine, hasn't added significantly to the difficulty in a new player picking up the job, yet allows more experienced players to get the most out of the cone AOE and potentially use it in a more effective way than a simple circle AOE. But god forbid the game allows people to utilize their job actions in more skillful ways as they become more experienced, now EVERY tank can play the exact same in dungeon pulls, thank god! Wouldn't want a new player to have to think about how to most effectively use the job they chose for more than a second, that would be scary and offputting to all the stardew valley players that want to play through the game for their ERP glamours and kawaii moments between their catgirl and g'raha tia or whatever.

[Dxzstar]

I might agree with this if, like I said, mobs didn't naturally reposition themselves around the tank, and there were two tanks who utilised just cone AoEs. Then you could claim it was simply a different paradigm. But it's not, it works counter to the base mechanics of dungeon pulls.

So I have a question. Do you feel there is any issue with DRK's usage of lines for their aoe's? Since those are arguably vastly more frustrating to properly line up. Do you think Flood and Shadowbringer should become circular? What of BRD and MCH as well? I'm sorry if this seems patronizing but it seems like you don't really mind those so I kinda wanna confirm and if so, ask why?

[Seraphor]

So I have a question. Do you feel there is any issue with DRK's usage of lines for their aoe's? Since those are arguably vastly more frustrating to properly line up. Do you think Flood and Shadowbringer should become circular? What of BRD and MCH as well? I'm sorry if this seems patronizing but it seems like you don't really mind those so I kinda wanna confirm and if so, ask why?

DRK's is still questionable, but ranged DPS are designed to be, you know, at ranged, that's where cones work.

[Mikey_R]

DRK's is still questionable, but ranged DPS are designed to be, you know, at ranged, that's where cones work.

But cones are still melee. If you want to hit the pack, you need to be able to hit the furthest one from you, which means you are close to the ones at the front, so that logic doesn't work out.

It is also a massive benefit to the party if mobs aren't grouped around the tank but rather grouped infront of them, which is where the cone AoE excels, and it had a much wider range than people seem to give it credit for. Having everything infront also helps DRK and Paladin with Flood/Shadowbringer/Blade combo as it is easier to hit everything in the pack. Warrior's cone essentially taught this to tanks naturally, you might not know why exactly you were doing it, but you did anyway.

I was never a warrior main, however, whenever I did use it in a dungeon, it forced different pulling strategies on me, which helped to break the monotony of circles all the way.

[Dxzstar]

DRK's is still questionable, but ranged DPS are designed to be, you know, at ranged, that's where cones work.

I think it works about as well. Since you open up with overpower from a certain distance anyways and then keeping the mobs grouped right would require more work without it. DPS want the mobs in a tight ball. Which they will naturally separate out of. Especially with the larger mobs FF has taken to throwing out in the packs. (Looking at you Dead Ends) YOU, as a tank, should try to keep them from doing that. Say what you want, that is much easier with cones as your shorter, more inferior, circles will simply lack the range to smack the mobs at certain times while the DPS can just stand in the middle or target the middle most mob.

I admittedly didn't even realize it had an effect like that until I did dungeons with some FC members and one of them mentioned she preferred the way I grouped mobs. Man, I'm just using overpower. But since I learned, I tried doing it with circles and it is a mite bit more challenging. Not much mind you, likely no more than using cones is for you, but dang. Overpower cone was putting in work and I didn't even realize.

[PangTong]

So I have a question. Do you feel there is any issue with DRK's usage of lines for their aoe's? Since those are arguably vastly more frustrating to properly line up. Do you think Flood and Shadowbringer should become circular? What of BRD and MCH as well? I'm sorry if this seems patronizing but it seems like you don't really mind those so I kinda wanna confirm and if so, ask why?

IMO yes Flood should absolutely be a circle. Line AoEs are okay on a DPS as you are free to move about to get the perfect line that hits all the mobs. On a tank, the mobs follow you and crowd around you, they do not politely queue up to be hit by your narrow line attack.

I don't really mind cone AoEs, what bothered me about Overpower is that it was the one cone AoE on a job where every other AoE was a circle, including the next step of the AoE combo. It means you constantly have to go in and out of the pack to hit everything, which is really annoying as a tank as it causes all the mobs to jiggle around which messes up the party's AoE too. I'd have been fine if they went the opposite direction and made Mythril Tempest, Decimate and Chaotic Cyclone into cones. I'm fine with BRD and MCH having all cones for that reason.

It's not so bad if the aoe shape disparity only happens every so often. For example SAM still has to hit a cone for Ogi Namikiri, MNK has to hit a line for Enlightenment (although Enlightenment is annoying for different reasons). But when it's every other combo attack it gets a bit tiresome. So I'd be okay with keeping Shadowbringer as a line, or more preferably a cone. But Flood should be a circle without question.