Healer PVP Actions are Amazing

[Recon1o6]

i cant stand ff14's pvp very much between me not judging distances well, getting constantly dogpiled and incompetent teammates (1 game of frontlines is enough for me, though crystal conflict is better reminding me of tower control from splatoon) but even i found some enjoyment in the healer kits. Until i get cc'd to death and/or one shot (I ate TWO 3% one shots from a mch in one game last night rip Avarnia's midsection)

the best bit was having cards again. I said to my friend last night that i was basically having a "its been 3000 years..." moment

i also got a bit of enjoyment out of blm getting to spam flare repeatedly as teh lb. Especially since i got exdeath's flare modded over regular flare for being so much more satisfying

can we swap the pve and pvp job designers asap?

[ty_taurus]

i cant stand ff14's pvp very much between me not judging distances well, getting constantly dogpiled and incompetent teammates (1 game of frontlines is enough for me, though crystal conflict is better reminding me of tower control from splatoon) but even i found some enjoyment in the healer kits. Until i get cc'd to death and/or one shot (I ate TWO 3% one shots from a mch in one game last night rip Avarnia's midsection)

the best bit was having cards again. I said to my friend last night that i was basically having a "its been 3000 years..." moment

i also got a bit of enjoyment out of blm getting to spam flare repeatedly as teh lb. Especially since i got exdeath's flare modded over regular flare for being so much more satisfying

can we swap the pve and pvp job designers asap?

I can understand the frustrations.

I myself am enjoying the new PVP a lot actually. It's fast, it's full of action, but it's less chaotic than Frontlines where there are just so many people that it's difficult to actually target effectively or go in without getting blown up. I feel like I can actually go in as SGE to use Phlegma strategically and see success whereas I could never do that in frontlines. That said, something that I think is going to hold back PVP is that there's a lot less clarity on what is actually happening in a battle in contrast to other PVP games, MOBAs, battle arenas, etc. For example, although I know what my limit break does as a SGE, I don't think anyone who's not a SGE understands it. People will just stand outside of the arena and continue to attack me for 0 damage.

How much damage you're doing, what's influencing that, who's being affected by debuffs, and other smaller details are very difficult to identify at a glance which I think will need to be worked on and improved for PVP to get better. Even still, I'm gonna enjoy trying to rank up for the first time in XIV

[SieyaM]

Maybe I just have crazy dreams, but I feel like these LBs could be implemented into PvE using the job gauges. AST could use the seals to build up for celestial river with a reduced potency (which would really just bring back original divination) and lillies could be used on WHM to build for Afflatus Purgation and generate lillies via heals or DPS somehow. These abilities just feel like they would be incredible pay offs for using the job correctly rather than the nothing they have to work towards now.

[Callypso]

Controversial opinion: Healers are TOO good, the amount of self healing they have is ridiculous. Most classes can do perfect bursts + an LB and healers can just heal through the entire thing while running to their team across an entire frontline map. It's one thing if there are multiple healers in formation overlapping AOE's or something. But them being able to run across an entire map soaking several rotations and a LB is quite frankly unacceptable. Healers need a self heal penalty, full stop. Don't touch their potency, they can cure their party members for current values, that's punishment for people not focusing healers. But their self sustain needs to be cut by AT LEAST 20% if not more. If a healer gets caught too far from their group they should be punished for it, not able to heal themselves from one end of the map to the other.

Not to mention how badly this gets exacerbated by ANY level of battle high, which i believe needs to be removed entirely i also think they need to add status resistance like in PVE so you cant be stunned, then stunned, then stunned literally back to back.

And don't get me started on how as a WAR my status invuln period is a JOKE since whm can imp me leading to instant death before i can take advantage any of my potency increases the second they see me glowing... i need to go fury -> whetting -> rend -> cyclone to match DRG's one button press that does 30K vs my 32k while giving them an 5s ACTUAL invulnerability window while also gimping my own resources since i need to HOLD cyclone / Primal for burst since fury doesn't put them off CD or even lower it.

[HyonaCookie]

I think what works about the healer kits in PvP is because they wanted to move away from needing a healer, healers instead get more support oriented. Healing is now a resource you have to think about. Like for scholar you get 2 instant adlos and 2 deployment tactics. You could use both deployments on the adlo, or you can use one on the adlo, one on biolysis.

I also think it would be cool to have individual limit breaks in addition to group, especially since LBs are often "reserved" for certain situations due to the bar being shared.

[Bjorn-Kobito]

Controversial opinion: Healers are TOO good, the amount of self healing they have is ridiculous. Most classes can do perfect bursts + an LB and healers can just heal through the entire thing while running to their team across an entire frontline map. It's one thing if there are multiple healers in formation overlapping AOE's or something. But them being able to run across an entire map soaking several rotations and a LB is quite frankly unacceptable. Healers need a self heal penalty, full stop. Don't touch their potency, they can cure their party members for current values, that's punishment for people not focusing healers. But their self sustain needs to be cut by AT LEAST 20% if not more. If a healer gets caught too far from their group they should be punished for it, not able to heal themselves from one end of the map to the other.

Not to mention how badly this gets exacerbated by ANY level of battle high, which i believe needs to be removed entirely i also think they need to add status resistance like in PVE so you cant be stunned, then stunned, then stunned literally back to back.

And don't get me started on how as a WAR my status invuln period is a JOKE since whm can imp me leading to instant death before i can take advantage any of my potency increases the second they see me glowing... i need to go fury -> whetting -> rend -> cyclone to match DRG's one button press that does 30K vs my 32k while giving them an 5s ACTUAL invulnerability window while also gimping my own resources since i need to HOLD cyclone / Primal for burst since fury doesn't put them off CD or even lower it.

Uh, I know you probably just had a bad match but healers are not that strong lol. Our heals barely heal for all that much at all. WAR has the craziest CC out of all of the jobs with a AoE stun on a 15 sec CD. I would gladly trade turning someone into an imp for that. I do think we need resistances or at the very least diminished durations on back to back debuffs being applied though. You can full stop stun lock someone if your team plays coordinated enough.

[Deceptus]

I think what works about the healer kits in PvP is because they wanted to move away from needing a healer, healers instead get more support oriented. Healing is now a resource you have to think about. Like for scholar you get 2 instant adlos and 2 deployment tactics. You could use both deployments on the adlo, or you can use one on the adlo, one on biolysis.

This is my take as well.

Every healer gets a whopping TWO heals on a 15s recharge while tanks and DPS have a 123 rotation plus burst. If anyone is focused by 2 or more people they're going to die no matter what.

Especially healers

[Semirhage]

That's probably related to the eternal MMO debate on healers in PVP. They're either strong enough to outheal a DPS, and therefore nigh unkillable, or they're not, in which case they're obligate first targets and free points for classes more powerful than they are. Guess which choice the DPS regard as more "fair". And guess which role the people in charge of decisions main.

[Callypso]

Uh, I know you probably just had a bad match

I've played 40 matches of frontline since 6.1. I'm talking about players who know, use their kit OPTIMALLY. Weaving sprint after nature -> cure 2 to continue to gain distance. Forcing me to burn my own HP to gap close w/ onslaught alternating between blota pulls and procing their 12K shield every time.

It isn't something that has happened once in 40 games. It happens in about 1/4. I go to punish a lone healer trying to claim a remote node. Then despite using my LB and doing perfect rotations they still close the entire maps distance back to their base. I've determined this to be a mistake and stopped. Because I KNOW I cant kill them 1v1 unless they're a bad player.

I didn't have a "bad game". The fact potency in PVP is now 1:1 damage before mods makes crunch incredibly easy.

People claiming that WHM mitigation is 2 "whole" additional heals don't understand their class. They can imp -> cure 2, then Seraph Strike for 10% mitigation and get a free instant cast cure 3. Cure 2/3 stacks regen every 15s once used. When hit with primal rend a good player will reflex Aquaveil for 12K shield instantly and it refreshes every 20s, and if they miss timing with rend, while sprinting away they can force a proc when reeled back in via Blota. Rend being 15s means NOTHING when you have Veil + Purity so you ALWAYS have a debuff cleanse 1v1. GOOD players can ALWAYS proc 12K shields off veil. This on top of Gaurds 90% mit for 5s every 30s like everyone else & the standard 4x 15K pot heals w/ 1 refreshing every 15s via MP regen.

This isn't a matter of opinion. It's objective parsing. Numbers don't lie. WHM literally has more healing potential than I can burst at them WITHOUT their LB let alone with when played correctly.

I can tell you 50% of WMH players are bad because when I suicide bomb them as WAR they don't immediately veil -> miracle -> seraph -> cure iii like I do while I'm playing WHM. Just like I can say 50% of war mains are bad because they don't pre-use whetting before rend to gap close after blotaing a target to proc scream causing them to DIE almost immediately once focused. Especially since 80% of them forget to guard as they retreat after CC (if they even survive that long) while using medkit + sprint weaves to rejoin their party.

Anyone who wishes to try to dispute this can go ahead and do the math. You'll find when both players are playing optimally Eg WHM prioritizing self heal and kiting w/ a WAR prioritizing max DPS I'm Correct. Then remember that's with WAR USING A LB and WHM not even having to.

WHM LB cures 2K more than my entire LB buff to CC + REND & 4 cleaves can do, assuming they JUST take it without imping me. Which depending on their timing can cost me TWO of my 6 buffed GCD's instead of just 1 which is a 16~32k potency loss.

[IkaraGreydancer]

i cant stand ff14's pvp very much between me not judging distances well, getting constantly dogpiled and incompetent teammates (1 game of frontlines is enough for me, though crystal conflict is better reminding me of tower control from splatoon) but even i found some enjoyment in the healer kits. Until i get cc'd to death and/or one shot (I ate TWO 3% one shots from a mch in one game last night rip Avarnia's midsection)

the best bit was having cards again. I said to my friend last night that i was basically having a "its been 3000 years..." moment

i also got a bit of enjoyment out of blm getting to spam flare repeatedly as teh lb. Especially since i got exdeath's flare modded over regular flare for being so much more satisfying

can we swap the pve and pvp job designers asap?

Why would you be on official forums talking about mods you use...? You trying to get banned?