If you continue to dumb down the game, you will lose half your player base

[Elesh]

Yeah, I don't think it was designed around that. Rather, it's an expectation that's taken root in the modern MMO community for some reason. I get that a lot of healers are complaining that they have nothing to do, but these same people are likely raiding high end content with static groups of very competent players. Naturally, you're not going to have to heal very much in those scenarios. If you want to spend your time healing as a healer, then you need to run with random sprouts who constantly stand in stuff and collect vuln stacks. I can tell you that this makes for a much more engaging healing experience that doesn't even treat DPS as anything but filler. That's what the game is really designed around, but the high end community doesn't like to hear that. They want to run with the best of the best and then complain that the best of the best are too easily healed.

It may not have been ORIGINALLY designed around that. But it IS balanced around the asusmption of that.

Enrage timers are balanced around healer dps. Try clearing any extreme trial or savage on launch with two 0 dps healers and tell me again that content is not CURRENTLY designed around healers dpsing.

[RitsukoSonoda]

It may not have been ORIGINALLY designed around that. But it IS balanced around the asusmption of that.

Enrage timers are balanced around healer dps. Try clearing any extreme trial or savage on launch with two 0 dps healers and tell me again that content is not CURRENTLY designed around healers dpsing.

I've been there and done that. Failed enrage timers are generally caused by low dps output to begin with being paired with DPS players also dying to mechanics making that low output even lower. Having healers DPS just provides a small amount of wiggle room for the DPS to players to be lackluster provided the healer isn't ignoring healing duties to focus on their dps parse. Something that would happen far more often if they added more to healer job dps kits. This I feel is caused by NA culture trying to turn as many things as possible into a speed run.

As the guy you replied to said. One of the issue's I see frequently is healers only wanting to play with pro level players because randoms are too much work when they eat mechanics and need additional heals then when they get their party of pro players who only take damage from unavoidable roomwide AoE's they complain about being bored because they're only using 2-3 spells.

[Jijifli]

I don't get this, people want to have more damage skills when your focus is healing? Then playing anything but healer should be better imo.

I played SCH from ARR to mid StB. Back then, SCH actually had multiple dps buttons to use and keep track of. I found it enjoyable. The reasoning I stopped, was specifically with Stormblood, I had this weird feeling in the back of my mind. This was the expac that cleric stance died, and the reasoning was to make healers have an easier time dpsing. I didn't mind this, it barely effected me personally as I never got stuck in cleric stance. However, something just didn't feel right to me by the middleground, and I ended up dropping the job in favor of BLM.

Queue the next expansion, we have removed basically every single offensive spell from SCH because... it was to make healers have an easier time dpsing.

That. Was the red flag. I just didn't see it at the very start.

So, yes. I am playing anything but healer. I specifically even moved my SCH jobstone to my retainer, to prevent myself from ever, EVER getting ideas. In square's efforts to make healers more accessible, they drove me away from playing it. And as they continue to do this to more and more jobs, I slowly and surely want to play them less and less. I'm at the point where I'm terrified on my BLM, every single time there's an update. "They're gonna ruin it." "It's coming up." "They're gonna take the fun out of my job again." These should never be thoughts of any player when patches are coming. These are meant to be exciting, not fearful.

[HyoMinPark]

Yeah, I don't think it was designed around that. Rather, it's an expectation that's taken root in the modern MMO community for some reason. I get that a lot of healers are complaining that they have nothing to do, but these same people are likely raiding high end content with static groups of very competent players. Naturally, you're not going to have to heal very much in those scenarios. If you want to spend your time healing as a healer, then you need to run with random sprouts who constantly stand in stuff and collect vuln stacks. I can tell you that this makes for a much more engaging healing experience that doesn't even treat DPS as anything but filler. That's what the game is really designed around, but the high end community doesn't like to hear that. They want to run with the best of the best and then complain that the best of the best are too easily healed.

Even when you do content with a party full of people who have no idea what they’re doing, you are still primarily DPSing as a healer. There simply isn’t that much to heal, and most mechanics in non-Savage content are so non-threatening that you can eat them with multiple vulnerability stacks and it’s a toss up if they will actually hurt you. The most “DPS downtime” you’ll have is Day 1 of a new 24-man—and that’s only because you’ll be spending 8 seconds hard casting Raises the way Oprah hands out free stuff if the raid is well-designed (not looking at you, Void Ark). That’s the only time I actually feel engaged as a healer, and that’s been the case since late HW—before I ever started raiding.

The high-end only want “the best of the best” in very specific situations, such as barse runs or speeds where they already have a high goal in mind (e.g., oranges/pinks, fast kills). You’re completely missing the point of the complaints, which lie primarily in that healers are the only role that get more boring the more competent their party is. To the point that, in some fights, a second isn’t even needed. In a handful, they can be done without a healer at all.

This game does take healer DPS into account, and it has for several years now. Healers are basically support—and they do enough personal damage that, if you aren’t contributing to damage, you are griefing your party. There simply isn’t enough downtime to warrant healer DPS to not be considered meaningful.

I've been there and done that. Failed enrage timers are generally caused by low dps output to begin with being paired with DPS players also dying to mechanics making that low output even lower. Having healers DPS just provides a small amount of wiggle room for the DPS to players to be lackluster provided the healer isn't ignoring healing duties to focus on their dps parse. Something that would happen far more often if they added more to healer job dps kits. This I feel is caused by NA culture trying to turn as many things as possible into a speed run.

I don’t think you realize that two good healers already do more damage than the highest parsing DPS job right now. You’re severely underestimating the impact of healer DPS. As I said above, it is straight-up griefing if you are a healer and refuse to DPS. Healers simply do too much damage.

I also fail to see how giving healers more DPS options would prompt them to heal less. You do realize that healers hardly have much to heal right now as it is, right? Aside from the fact that they blow their oGCD resources first, which can be just as easily done doing a 1-2-3 or managing multiple DoTs as it can be spamming Glare/Malefic/Broil/Dosis now.

As the guy you replied to said. One of the issue's I see frequently is healers only wanting to play with pro level players because randoms are too much work when they eat mechanics and need additional heals then when they get their party of pro players who only take damage from unavoidable roomwide AoE's they complain about being bored because they're only using 2-3 spells.

Healers only tend to get annoyed by DPS eating stuff when they are constantly having to pick them off of the floor because the DPS don’t greed responsibly. When I have to waste my 2400 MP on raising them 5 times during a single encounter, it’s irksome. I’m a lot more lenient in new content and when people are learning—but when it’s obvious that the DPS is being carried, then I start to get annoyed. But I also just dislike carrying in general. Regardless of the role I’m on.

[TaleraRistain]

I've been there and done that. Failed enrage timers are generally caused by low dps output to begin with being paired with DPS players also dying to mechanics making that low output even lower. Having healers DPS just provides a small amount of wiggle room for the DPS to players to be lackluster provided the healer isn't ignoring healing duties to focus on their dps parse. Something that would happen far more often if they added more to healer job dps kits. This I feel is caused by NA culture trying to turn as many things as possible into a speed run.

As the guy you replied to said. One of the issue's I see frequently is healers only wanting to play with pro level players because randoms are too much work when they eat mechanics and need additional heals then when they get their party of pro players who only take damage from unavoidable roomwide AoE's they complain about being bored because they're only using 2-3 spells.

This. I see people complaining all they do is spam Stone and I think "Do you queue with randoms? Because it doesn't sound like you do". Or if they do they deliberately don't heal because people were people and picked up a vuln or took some damage or whatever. Pear-shaped groups are my favorite. They keep me so busy. They challenge my ability to be the glue that holds things together and I get to be a Big Damned Hero when I pull it off.

I do think those smoother DF groups are boring and would like more to do, though not dps. I'd rather get support abilities like buffs or debuffs or damage shields to maintain. It means I'd be even busier in pear-shaped groups but that's fine with me. Give me those plates to balance. I'm up to the challenge.

[Snowborn]

The healer downtime argument isn't even worth engaging with. It's plainly silly. Without healer DPS every decently challenging raid would be impossible to finish at minimum ilvl.

But RE: the topic at hand. I like a simpler FFXIV. The kaiten removal was only bad because it makes the job feel less impressive. They can fix that without making people's APM higher.

FFXIV is only going to get simpler and that's a good thing to most people.

[HyoMinPark]

But RE: the topic at hand. I like a simpler FFXIV. The kaiten removal was only bad because it makes the job feel less impressive. [/b]They can fix that without making people's APM higher.[/b]

A higher APM would be seen as “too busy” by this community—thereby going against your “simpler FFXIV” design wishes.

[Shin96]

I'm always trying to understand why people want these jobs to be simplified. Sometimes it's the developers themselves.

People argue too much. We have millions of players and you can't realistically make things too complicated, but this route they're taking is.. unfortunate to say the least.

Hissatsu: Kaiten didn't need to be removed. In all my time of playing (approaching 7000 hours) no one ever complained about it. It reminds me alot of my favourite job DRK. Same treatment.

Speak up if you can. The DRK community got their fixes after 7 years. You guys have to work together instead of argue. We can't all be happy but there will be some agreement from everyone if you try.

[hagare]

I don't get this, people want to have more damage skills when your focus is healing? Then playing anything but healer should be better imo.

In FF14, every role is DPS!

[MonsutaMan]

Yoshi was speaking facts.

The up-rise of FFXIV, is directly correlated to the fall of WoW.

He may know, like WoW, being on top does not last forever.

WoW lost players because it is a near 20 year old mmo. I am shocked WoW lasted that long on top to be honest....People were saying WoW was too easy back in 2010. I don't think it lost players due to that; just my opinion.

XIV's decline will come eventually, and he may be aware of that. If it happened to WoW, it can happen to any mmo. WoW is the most dominant mmo ever. SE could be working on another mmo for all we know.

XI shifted focus on Trust the same year their final expansion released.