If you continue to dumb down the game, you will lose half your player base

[Vahlnir]

Yoshi was speaking facts.

The up-rise of FFXIV, is directly correlated to the fall of WoW.

He may know, like WoW, being on top does not last forever.

WoW lost players because it is a near 20 year old mmo. I am shocked WoW lasted that long on top to be honest....People were saying WoW was too easy back in 2010. I don't think it lost players due to that; just my opinion.

XIV's decline will come eventually, and he may be aware of that. If it happened to WoW, it can happen to any mmo. WoW is the most dominant mmo ever. SE could be working on another mmo for all we know.

XI shifted focus on Trust the same year their final expansion released.

No, WoW lost players because of terrible design choices spanning at least a decade. The continued interest despite all of that is a huge indicator that age isn't a factor. I would know. I was and continue to be there (sometimes).

[Broken_Wind]

Yoshi was speaking facts.

The up-rise of FFXIV, is directly correlated to the fall of WoW.

He may know, like WoW, being on top does not last forever.

WoW lost players because it is a near 20 year old mmo. I am shocked WoW lasted that long on top to be honest....People were saying WoW was too easy back in 2010. I don't think it lost players due to that; just my opinion.

XIV's decline will come eventually, and he may be aware of that. If it happened to WoW, it can happen to any mmo. WoW is the most dominant mmo ever. SE could be working on another mmo for all we know.

XI shifted focus on Trust the same year their final expansion released.

WoW didnt lost most of its players because 'too easy'
The biggest factor is the constant focus on repetitious tasks that players need to do daily/weekly to keep up.
WoW often felt like a chore, and then transitioned this into borrowed power systems
Had this been account wide then *maybe* people wouldnt have found it so bad. but you needed to do it on alts too. In a game that was even more heavy handed than FFXIV is lately with its balance changes.

[Elesh]

<snip>
This game does take healer DPS into account, and it has for several years now. Healers are basically support—and they do enough personal damage that, if you aren’t contributing to damage, you are griefing your party. There simply isn’t enough downtime to warrant healer DPS to not be considered meaningful.

I don’t think you realize that two good healers already do more damage than the highest parsing DPS job right now. You’re severely underestimating the impact of healer DPS. As I said above, it is straight-up griefing if you are a healer and refuse to DPS. Healers simply do too much damage.

I also fail to see how giving healers more DPS options would prompt them to heal less. You do realize that healers hardly have much to heal right now as it is, right? Aside from the fact that they blow their oGCD resources first, which can be just as easily done doing a 1-2-3 or managing multiple DoTs as it can be spamming Glare/Malefic/Broil/Dosis now.



Healers only tend to get annoyed by DPS eating stuff when they are constantly having to pick them off of the floor because the DPS don’t greed responsibly. When I have to waste my 2400 MP on raising them 5 times during a single encounter, it’s irksome. I’m a lot more lenient in new content and when people are learning—but when it’s obvious that the DPS is being carried, then I start to get annoyed. But I also just dislike carrying in general. Regardless of the role I’m on.

My honest ideal would be to intertwine healing and dpsing together. And I don't mean like sage... a very basic example is how lilies work. By healing, I get to do damage. Great. Now that lilies are damage neutrla, I'm encouraged to find reasons to use those heals. That's a smart design. And I'd love if the opposite was true. Give me like a 'petal' bar that increases every time I do damage and when it fills up I can cast a high damage nuke spell that makes my next lily off the global cooldown. Or give me a proc on dealing damage that makes my next single target healing spell also apply regen.

Make doing damage and healing part of the same kit and intertwined in interesting ways. Reward me for dpsing with healing... and reward me for healing with dps. THAT would be my absolute ideal. (but at the same time, I do enjoy what I'm doing now because the fight design is really good so *shrugs*)

[Kaliesto]

Job changes don't bother me really, it is what it is.

But my main issue with FFXIV is the dumbed down Normal Content which to me seems to have been a problem for many years.

I finally put my finger on what I found really wrong with this game and its the fact that most Overworld monsters, Dungeon monsters (including some bosses, not all of them), and other misc. content involving battles are simply not that engaging and very dull. Either this was by design or something else I don't know, but while I understand a lot of people play this game from a business standpoint but aren't we here to stimulate our senses and not dull it out trying to have fun or FIND FUN? I can understand wanting a easy time, but what is the point of a game if everything is hand given with just a swipe 1-2-3.

I'm not even sure if Normal Content should be called Normal, feels like very easy mode from 2.0 to now.

I was really disappointed even the final boss of a long chapter turned out to be a pushover like everything else, but then I'm reminded that past FF games did this too..but I was hoping a MMORPG wouldn't take this route. It doesn't leave much satisfaction at all.

I was given a bit of hope with the new alliance raid, the bosses are actually reasonable in terms of being a challenge but I wish this was more consistent everywhere else.

EDIT -

My final point, but what in the world did Final Fantasy XI do to cause Final Fantasy XIV to be complete almost opposite of engagement? Its really odd that FFXI was reasonable in almost everything it did (except for a very specific post game boss that was pure insanity) but Final Fantasy XIV not so much. You would think its best to know what worked, and why that game was fun and carry that onward.

[Skiros]

Yoshi P said in a video that FFXIV wouldn't exist were it not for WoW. The game was a major inspirational source for this game. My question really is: Is the dev team willing to learn from the mistakes Blizzard made?

Blizzard literally went on a raging simplification spree. Notably pruning and removing tons of abilities from each class and specializations in the name of "accessibility". Shortly after the game went downhill big time. Skill expression is today completely gone in WoW. Every class plays braindead 1-2-3 button smashing that literally dulls your brain as you play.

I truly do not understand why the developers want to do the same thing to FFXIV. Heck, Blizzard even recently stated that pruning was a mistake. They're now trying to "undo" the damage, but that's likely going to take multiple expansions of work. Why on earth would you want to repeat this same mistake in FFXIV?

Having easy jobs is perfectly fine, but there needs to be jobs that offer also medium difficulty and high difficulty. Pruning and dumbing down existing jobs is not in any way acceptable, and is an insult to players who main those jobs. If you want to make something simple, then you need to create new jobs that are simple from the beginning - period. People are invested in their jobs and you're actively disrespecting their affection by making changes none of them asked for.

By all means, continue to remove abilities and make the game play itself. You will not gain more subs; but you will lose half your player base from your arrogance.

Exactly. Just because someone is casual doesn't mean they don't enjoy complexity and nuance.

[Skiros]

The hype over Ultimate shows that a significant portion of this playerbase cares about skill and display of skill. Having a high skill ceiling isn't something to be afraid of; it just serves as something for players to want to attain in the long term.

[TaleraRistain]

The hype over Ultimate shows that a significant portion of this playerbase cares about skill and display of skill. Having a high skill ceiling isn't something to be afraid of; it just serves as something for players to want to attain in the long term.

I'm gonna disagree there. Lots of people are watching it for the spectacle and the memes, but would never want to do it themselves. Much like many people who watch sports. They can appreciate the work that goes into it and the dedication while deciding that that route isn't for them.

[Skiros]

I'm gonna disagree there. Lots of people are watching it for the spectacle and the memes, but would never want to do it themselves. Much like many people who watch sports. They can appreciate the work that goes into it and the dedication while deciding that that route isn't for them.

At the same time lots of people are trying out Extreme or first floor Savage for the first time because of this hype and buzz.

[TaleraRistain]

At the same time lots of people are trying out Extreme or first floor Savage for the first time because of this hype and buzz.

Yeah but how many are going to stick with it when they see what's required? I'm sure some will, but others will be turned off by it and just go back to watching the spectacle.

[UkcsAlias]

My honest ideal would be to intertwine healing and dpsing together.

Well, i think that dps on its own on a healer generaly already does fine. Its usualy however that the moment a healer has to heal, its considered a negative thing, and overhealing on that considered even worse. The DPS focus is too excessive here. Giving heals compensation in dps to make their heals reduce the effective dps loss is a good way to negate that.

However, the other way around isnt. DPSing should not reward with even more healing, as that would amplify the issue and push the focus more to dps again, instad of pushing the focus to healing. If healing always has the same output. DPS is simply just its reward for efficient healing. If DPS becomes a key aspect for healing, then you essentialy are forced into dpsing more. Consistent healing however should be the key aspect. You want to push a focus towards keeping teammates at high health instead of just avoiding them to get killed at best.

oGCD heals are on that a safe thing as they dont disrupt the dps, and are effective. But also the most dull. So yes, intertwining is the best way to handle this.

But i think some DPS abilities should be tied towards the HP of teammates. If their HP is lower, your dps also will.