Machinist class is dead

[HyoMinPark]

It does out dps the other two physical ranged jobs, by a lot actually. If you're referring to RDPS and not DPS then yes it falls behind there. But if you think MCH should do more personal dmg than Bard and Dancer and also do more RDPS than Bard and Dancer, what exactly would be the point of Bard and Dancer even existing. MCH has issues for sure, the entire Phys Ranged role has issues. Simply making it outperform Bard and Dancer in everything isn't a solution.

There's a big issue with people on this forum demanding changes looking at FFLOGS (sorted by RDPS) and assuming thats personal DPS. MCH literally does around 15% more dmg than both Dancer and Bard in straight up DPS comparison.

You have to kind of look at both: because BRD and DNC are “support” physical ranged that buff the group, you consider rDPS for them. MCH is “selfish”, so you want to consider aDPS for them since it doesn’t bring any buffs to the group to get rDPS gains from. MCH obviously does more aDPS than BRD and DNC, but aDPS is not the metric that matters for them. It’s rDPS, so you look at that.
If we looked strictly at aDPS, a job like DNC would have been in the grave all last expansion—yet it dominated the role.

Currently, I’m looking at 95th percentiles for the Savage fights, and MCH’s aDPS does not outweigh the rDPS of BRD and DNC in P1S, P2S, P3S, or P4S phase 2. P4S door boss is the only fight at that percentile where MCH’s aDPS is close to the rDPS of BRD and DNC (around ~8,300 to 8,400)—and it’s still technically a bit lower.

I’m not sure how much the potency changes will give it, but it doesn’t really change the fact that MCH doesn’t bring anything to the table that BRD and DNC don’t already. The only thing it has is its damage, and BRD/DNC buff the party more than MCH gives damage.

[Cyd3l]

You have to kind of look at both: because BRD and DNC are “support” physical ranged that buff the group, you consider rDPS for them. MCH is “selfish”, so you want to consider aDPS for them since it doesn’t bring any buffs to the group to get rDPS gains from. MCH obviously does more aDPS than BRD and DNC, but aDPS is not the metric that matters for them. It’s rDPS, so you look at that.
If we looked strictly at aDPS, a job like DNC would have been in the grave all last expansion—yet it dominated the role.

Currently, I’m looking at 95th percentiles for the Savage fights, and MCH’s aDPS does not outweigh the rDPS of BRD and DNC in P1S, P2S, P3S, or P4S phase 2. P4S door boss is the only fight at that percentile where MCH’s aDPS is close to the rDPS of BRD and DNC (around ~8,300 to 8,400)—and it’s still technically a bit lower.

I’m not sure how much the potency changes will give it, but it doesn’t really change the fact that MCH doesn’t bring anything to the table that BRD and DNC don’t already. The only thing it has is its damage, and BRD/DNC buff the party more than MCH gives damage.

I agree you do have to look at both. MCH should be more in line with DNC and BRD but not better. If they are better then they are better in everything. Dancer takes a huge personal hit to DPS, everything you do solo in the game you are doing 25% worse than every other class. You can't even generate Esprit at the normal rate without a dance partner. The gains DNC and BRD get from RDPS aren't easily achieved either, they shine when the raid is doing well and near-perfect execution. Any player not optimizing properly, or dying will hurt BRD and DNC's raid DPS. That's a huge penalty to have to rely on everyone playing perfectly so that you can contribute an equal amount of DPS to the raid as "selfish personal DPS" classes.

Where as selfish dps classes only ever have to worry about their own performance. There are way less failure conditions for classes who don't rely on buffs than those who do to achieve their current RDPS score. MCH is low and does need bigger buffs to be more in line with bard and DNC, but no it should not do more than either of them in a raid situation or literally its the best Phys Ranged class for all styles of gameplay, cause Bard and DNC already suck outside of group play, MCH does not.