Trick Attack

[kackal_Jackal]

That would matter if flogs actually gave the damage to the person maximizing things during TA. As it stands, everything is given to the Ninja, and that is garbage.

How is that garbage. Giving damage to jobs feeding into buffs is inherently flawed, because you'd then want to bring jobs that have buffs just to bolster your own (essentially, just look at aDPS).

rDPS is RAID DPS. NIN brings Trick Attack, which allows players to feed into their raid buff to boost the overall damage of the raid. What the NIN brings should go back to the NIN.

Besides, the argument is not great. What FFLogs does is irrelevant and the point still stands that removing the only 1m raid buff from the game will make playing other jobs that had the option to play into Trick lackluster.

[Kazimere]

Take it up with the people in charge of fflogs then. I'm only complaining here for the small chance the devs care about what the eng nin community has to say. If the game is being balanced around what the fflogs team does, that would be hilarious. Drks and whatever class with resources don't take advantage of trick for the logs, they do it to increase party dps lmao

It's a team game

So how is that going to hurt anything? The damage will just go to the ninja now, as it will output more on its own.

TA moved from a raid buff into a personal buff. That is a good thing, imo. Especially considering Ninja could swing wildly on its contribution depending on composition. Additionally, the haven’t cut it out entirely. They just moved it to a 120 and shifted the skill that applies it.

[Kazimere]

How is that garbage. Giving damage to jobs feeding into buffs is inherently flawed, because you'd then want to bring jobs that have buffs just to bolster your own (essentially, just look at aDPS).

rDPS is RAID DPS. NIN brings Trick Attack, which allows players to feed into their raid buff to boost the overall damage of the raid. What the NIN brings should go back to the NIN.

Besides, the argument is not great. What FFLogs does is irrelevant and the point still stands that removing the only 1m raid buff from the game will make playing other jobs that had the option to play into Trick lackluster.

If you think SE doesn’t know about flogs and take that into consideration then you are naive. They also plainly stated they wanted to bring raid buff windows in line with each other. Specifically on the 120 timer. Whether that is good or bad is up for debate, but it is irrelevant at this point.

[Manofpassion]

People just don't get it. They only care about numbers and balance. I am by no means a good ninja player, but I find trick attack fun. I find mashing everything into trick attack fun. I find allowing my party to take advantage of my trick during odd minutes fun. I enjoy the “challenge” of keeping my tricks on time every minute to help my party do more damage fun. This hurts my enjoyment of the job, and what a lot of players find fun about the job. Im not a slave to damage and balance and logs. I just like the job.

And the fact people still say "they haven't cut it out entirely". They kept the icon and the name of the move, but they have changed the purpose of the move, and what the move does. You think drk's old delirium is still in the game just because the name is still around? it if looks like a duck, or doesn't look like a duck rather, it's not a duck. If you keep the animation for communio and the name but make it a healing spell, that's not the same move

Also if square really does balance the game around fflogs, I will be very amused. The guys at fflogs better get a paycheck from yoshida every month if they do half of their job for them. Square's balancing team being slaves to a formula people came up with on the Internet is just funny.

[Kazimere]

People just don't get it. They only care about numbers and balance. I am by no means a good ninja player, but I find trick attack fun. I find mashing everything into trick attack fun. I find allowing my party to take advantage of my trick during odd minutes fun. I enjoy the “challenge” of keeping my tricks on time every minute to help my party do more damage fun. This hurts my enjoyment of the job, and what a lot of players find fun about the job. Im not a slave to damage and balance and logs. I just like the job.

And the fact people still say "they haven't cut it out entirely". They kept the icon and the name of the move, but they have changed the purpose of the move, and what the move does. You think drk's old delirium is still in the game just because the name is still around? it if looks like a duck, or doesn't look like a duck rather, it's not a duck. If you keep the animation for communion and the name but make it a healing spell, that's not the same move

Also if square really does balance the game around fflogs, I will be very amused. The guys at fflogs better get a paycheck from yoshida every month if they do half of their job for them.

Are you not helping out your party by using TA properly and pumping out more personal damage? You just aren’t relying on your party to maximize it every 60s now. I don’t see the issue.

People screech incessantly over FFlogs (usually incorrectly). You think they don’t take that into account and balance around it? Come on, man.

[dadong]

So how is that going to hurt anything? The damage will just go to the ninja now, as it will output more on its own.

TA moved from a raid buff into a personal buff. That is a good thing, imo. Especially considering Ninja could swing wildly on its contribution depending on composition. Additionally, the haven’t cut it out entirely. They just moved it to a 120 and shifted the skill that applies it.

you're arguing numbers and people are arguing gameplay. The changes will alter the rotation yet again in this expansion and the raid buff is moved to a skill that don't make much sense in the general ninja community. Job interaction is a fundamental aspect of a mmorpg limiting it would make the game truely boreing, and if you're concerned about dps swings because of compostion then dancers shouldn't even exist in the game.

[kackal_Jackal]

If you think SE doesn’t know about flogs and take that into consideration then you are naive. They also plainly stated they wanted to bring raid buff windows in line with each other. Specifically on the 120 timer. Whether that is good or bad is up for debate, but it is irrelevant at this point.

If you're going to argue, at least don't pull assumptions out of thin air lol. I never said SE doesn't know about FFLogs, it's just irrelevant for the argument about Trick Attack. Anything regarding numbers and how a job falls into meta is irrelevant when discussing how they're changing a job at the fundamental level. Homogenizing jobs for 'synergy' is lame.

60s raid buff aligns with 120s raid buffs anyway, so their reasoning for changing it still makes no sense.

[Manofpassion]

Me can buff party. Me enjoy buffing party. Apes together strong. Ninja is buff job, remove buff, ninjas sad.

If the devs ever remove dance partner and devilment but increase saber dance to do 200 more potency, the personal dps slaves are gonna be nose deep in yoshida. They literally can not fathom that some people like jobs that have powerful or interesting buffs in exchange for less personal dps. Why have any buffs at all? just make all your moves do more damage 4head

Although if square cares about fflogs because of people screeching, that gives me hope. I will screech even louder here so square will know that they are making a dumb decision

[RyuDragnier]

Me can buff party. Me enjoy buffing party. Apes together strong. Ninja is buff job, remove buff, ninjas sad.

If the devs ever remove dance partner and devilment but increase saber dance to do 200 more potency, the personal dps slaves are gonna be nose deep in yoshida. They literally can not fathom that some people like jobs that have powerful or interesting buffs in exchange for less personal dps. Why have any buffs at all? just make all your moves do more damage 4head

Although if square cares about fflogs because of people screeching, that gives me hope. I will screech even louder here so square will know that they are making a dumb decision

The difference is mostly the shift in how the devs see the jobs. NIN was for the longest the "support" melee DPS. It was the only one of its kind, and is one of the hardest melee to play for very little payout. They may have decided that it was either dumb down the gameplay and take things out of NIN (which would have enraged people more), or just bring it in line with other melee DPS without having to gut the kit.

[dadong]

The difference is mostly the shift in how the devs see the jobs. NIN was for the longest the "support" melee DPS. It was the only one of its kind, and is one of the hardest melee to play for very little payout. They may have decided that it was either dumb down the gameplay and take things out of NIN (which would have enraged people more), or just bring it in line with other melee DPS without having to gut the kit.

This is one hill I'm willing to die on when it comes to squares decision. I 100% disagree that all jobs should be easy enough and accessible to all players. There should be varying difficulties for jobs ranging from easier to harder so they can actually appeal to the majority of their players. I can by no means play black mage or monks perfectly but the fact that there is a imo a very difficult job in the game adds to my enjoyment rather than detracts.