Trick Attack

[Kazimere]

Nope, I'm screeching, and proud of it. Only reason I bothered to start a forums account is so I can add my voice to the numerous displeased ninja players. If square only cares about the numbers and logs like you suggest, and not the gameplay feel that ninjas enjoy, so be it. I am a subpar raider, but I can say that I only raid because I enjoy taking ninja's gameplay and feel into various hard content. If they want to alienate casual ninja raiders like me, it's their perogative.
Square from what I have seen doesn't really put gameplay enjoyment first anyway, with the summoner rework isolating many old summoners. I see no reason their philosophy will change just for ninja, but a man can dream.

Just stop. Of course they care about game play and feel. I never implied that they didn't. Clearly, they also care about other things. Congratulations on screeching like an emotional child. Let me know how that works out for you.

[Manofpassion]

I sure hope it works, and that I am proven wrong about square caring about gameplay and feel. Ninja has its problems, for sure. It can 100% be improved upon. But all the ninjas, like me complaining in this thread, are passionate about the job and what we see as its one minute buff identity. We enjoy what square has done so far, and we do not want to see them throw it all away. It's just as simple as that really. If the changes go through, I know I will still play the job, for I really love ninja. But I definitely won't enjoy it as much as i did before.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

As a long-time smn main, I say I agree with Manofpassion statement of the devs don't really care about gameplay and feel. At least not in this expac... If they did they wouldn't have turned smn into an unfinished, boring, shallow light show of a job. It has ALOT of flaws and the devs haven't shown any effort to fix any major flaws of the job so far. Great I can cast SL without carby...what about the fact smn at lvl 90 still feels like a lvl 50 job. Now they are changing a core ability to nin and straight up deleting a core button/gauge spender from sam. If anything they only care about simplifying jobs to the lowest skill bracket

[Manofpassion]

Honestly, I think saying the devs are simplifying the game is giving them too much credit. Pressing kaiten before midare is not hard, as many kaiten detractors point out. Trick detractors also say keeping trick on cooldown isn't difficult, which is also true. You can't simplify these things any further. So what are the reasons for these changes? They're not nerfs, since the devs are gonna compensate us accordingly. It could be a buff, but doing so at the expense of ninja's core skills seems like a strange choice. It seems like they are trying to fix what isn't broken. As far as I am aware, the game is alright balance wise right now. The fact that the devs spent like 15 minutes showing us cool new minions instead of taking 3 minutes to explain their logic is something I find strange. I hope our protests now can at least get us a coherent answer when they read out the patch notes.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Honestly, I think saying the devs are simplifying the game is giving them too much credit. Pressing kaiten before midare is not hard, as many kaiten detractors point out. Trick detractors also say keeping trick on cooldown isn't difficult, which is also true. You can't simplify these things any further. So what are the reasons for these changes? They're not nerfs, since the devs are gonna compensate us accordingly. It could be a buff, but doing so at the expense of ninja's core skills seems like a strange choice. It seems like they are trying to fix what isn't broken. As far as I am aware, the game is alright balance wise right now. The fact that the devs spent like 15 minutes showing us cool new minions instead of taking 3 minutes to explain their logic is something I find strange. I hope our protests now can at least get us a coherent answer when they read out the patch notes.

Maybe simplifying isn't the right word but I can only speak from a caster/smn main and they did simplify smn to the ground with its rework. I'm not saying these abilities were hard to use but they did add something to the jobs and that is being taken away for whatever reason. This whole 120s buff window thing imo is adding more rigidness into the game and I will be honest I don't really like it. As for balance yeah most of the jobs are balanced though I have said it once and I said again the caster role balance is a mess right now just because there isnt an in between job of a pure dps caster and a utility caster. Rdm can do everything an smn can do but better, so there might as well be just two casters right now....

Anyway, my post has gotten off-topic some so I wouldn't say much more than I agree with most that changing TA and deleting Kaiten is a bad decision on the devs part. Hope everyone has a great day!

[Hawuhawuu]

I dont care about the change. Its more the opener/rotation that worries me. Without a major rework it will be clunky missing ninki, gcds/ogcds and bunshin.

[Manofpassion]

Ninjas were having too much fun, and as such, those abilities must be removed. Honestly a pretty possible reason from my point of view lmao

This at least unites the Sam's, smns, and nins. If we all screech loud enough, maybe they will do something. Their crusade to a more rigid 2 minute style is something I don't understand. I can see why some stuff like 3 minute battle litany has been changed, and I haven't heard too many complaints about it. But this seems like change for the sake of change. Devs need to learn to count and realise one minute buffs line up with 2 minute buffs, 3 minute buffs and even 4 minute buffs. That is the beauty of trick. I wonder if the devs can even do darkened fire in p3s if counting is so complicated.

I wouldn't mind them reworking mug, for me it's kind of a whatever ogcd. I've rarely ever thought to myself, good thing mug just gave me enough ninki for a bunshin or bhava. I know there is some optimisation with placing mug into trick by double weaving and whatnot, but if they removed the move, i wouldn't lose sleep like I would with trick. But I would be lying if I said having the opener be changed again isn't massively annoying. Good luck to the first ultimate nins sorting all this out day 1.

[dadong]

I took a peak at the Jp forums and some people were speculating that the 50 gauge requirement for bushin will be removed to balance the mug changes. Which sounds like a real possibility at this point, I hope it won't be the case. It would be the lowest effort fix to a problem they're creating with the trick mug swap.

[Hawuhawuu]

Ninjas were having too much fun, and as such, those abilities must be removed. Honestly a pretty possible reason from my point of view lmao

This at least unites the Sam's, smns, and nins. If we all screech loud enough, maybe they will do something. Their crusade to a more rigid 2 minute style is something I don't understand. I can see why some stuff like 3 minute battle litany has been changed, and I haven't heard too many complaints about it. But this seems like change for the sake of change. Devs need to learn to count and realise one minute buffs line up with 2 minute buffs, 3 minute buffs and even 4 minute buffs. That is the beauty of trick. I wonder if the devs can even do darkened fire in p3s if counting is so complicated.

I wouldn't mind them reworking mug, for me it's kind of a whatever ogcd. I've rarely ever thought to myself, good thing mug just gave me enough ninki for a bunshin or bhava. I know there is some optimisation with placing mug into trick by double weaving and whatnot, but if they removed the move, i wouldn't lose sleep like I would with trick. But I would be lying if I said having the opener be changed again isn't massively annoying. Good luck to the first ultimate nins sorting all this out day 1.

Double weaving clips on nin and should be avoided at all costs. The only acceptable time to double weaving is when potting. When clipping mug/bunshin together.bunshin before your 3rd gcd gives you 100 ninki in your opener which is now gone and or either yours or teams buffs dont get the full value from buffs as its not at an optimal time.

I personally will be doing whatever maximizes my damage over the parties. Thats their goal with this change.

[aloneatsea]

Double weaving clips on nin and should be avoided at all costs. The only acceptable time to double weaving is when potting. When clipping mug/bunshin together. Mug before your 3rd gcd gives you 100 ninki in your opener which is now gone and or either yours or teams buffs dont get the full value from buffs as its not at an optimal time.

I'm sorry, but this is just not correct. On high enough ping, double-weaving will clip on any class. However, with reasonable ping, double-weaving after a GCD is perfectly fine. The only instances where you can't double-weave would be with your pot (as the pot animation lock prevents you from doing so) or immediately following a mudra/ninjutsu cast, as the cast time of your mudra occupies too much of your first weave slot.