Trick Attack

[Theihe]

I'm not mistaken, you don't express yourself properly. If you do speedruns, then you shouldn't ask yourself what's the point of doing more DPS once you get the clear, otherwise getting a clear represents the end of your gameplay (which as I have already say, it's valid).

I'm glad you perform better than most, it's still not relevant to the discussion. And also no one said this is "dumbing down" the job. I'm apparently condescending but you say that you don't take people's criticism unless they are XY good and you think that's normal. Good to know.

Ah yes, I almost forgot. Let's wait until patch notes (that won't have anything in it that will change minds). Next, we will wait until 6.2. Then 6.3 Then, *checks note* we will wait until the new expansion. Then the Media Tour, then...

Following your logic, they should also remove cards. You play one at odd minutes. This isn't 120s, so it needs to go. Moreover, AST depends on other players, so cards are a huge no-no. There, we also reduced how busy AST feels for everyone that doesn't like it. You like how busy it felt? Uh, idk, you'll find something else.

You are missing my point. The reality is that once you beat the DPS check there isn't actually any reason to do more DPS. The first, and only real hurdle, is beating the DPS check once, at which point it gets continously easier.
If one job has a rougher time meeting that check because "they scale harder later" then they, and their team, is arbitrarily taxed.
Speedkills is a player generated challenge which fills no function outside of filling time between patches.

It is relevant that people saying "this change is bad" doesn't actively play the job. A lot of the comments are from DPS saying "oh I like putting abilities under trick", which, while being wholesome, isn't relevant to if this change is better for the NIN players themselves.

We should wait until the patchnotes, and they will give us proper potency changes alongside them. People jump the gun so hard without getting the full picture. Don't strawman my argument.

This isn't my argument. It's disingenuous for you to imply such.

[dadong]

I personally really dislike the change, Trick being on a 1 min window is why alot of statics bring ninja's and not only just for clearing but also to add some variety to their gameplay by allowing them to dump their resources at 1 min mark. It was also integral to the identity as ninja.

Their idea was to limit the changes on the rotation as much as possible while making the nin buff 2 mins, but it's likely it won't play out that way unless they make mug a really awkward skill, like giving you ninki and raid buff. Ninja will be really awkward to play for a while, and I woulda prefered if they had actual balls to make trick 2 mins so we can use our ninjitsu in-between how we like. I imagine there's gonna be some odd timing forced downtime in dsw.

Lastly depending on the balance ninja will just end up being a worse version of monk in every single way. Ninjas has worse personal mit, no mantra, and probably will always have lower rdps by design compaired to monk. So I imagine most statics given the choice will always take monk over ninja if both players are good.

[Theihe]

I personally really dislike the change, Trick being on a 1 min window is why alot of statics bring ninja's and not only just for clearing but also to add some variety to their gameplay by allowing them to dump their resources at 1 min mark. It was also integral to the identity as ninja.

Statics with no NIN were never forced to do this. Statics with NIN were forced to do this.
You mention how you'd like to be able to use your mudras as you please in between the two minute window- well- that restrictiveness is what NIN forcefully imposes on groups that bring them.
If you want to dump your resource at the 1 min mark keep doing so. Trick being personal has no real impact on anyone. It is the best possible scenario this "make raidbuffs align at 2 min" mentality could've brought NIN. We get to keep the buff, making our burst windows stay consistent, while no longer gimping our personal output.

Their idea was to limit the changes on the rotation as much as possible while making the nin buff 2 mins, but it's likely it won't play out that way unless they make mug a really awkward skill, like giving you ninki and raid buff. Ninja will be really awkward to play for a while, and I woulda prefered if they had actual balls to make trick 2 mins so we can use our ninjitsu in-between how we like. I imagine there's gonna be some odd timing forced downtime in dsw.

Why would Mug become awkward? It's possible Mug just gets a rework entierly and no longer grants Ninki too, we don't know yet. And even if it still gives Ninki just ensure you go into your burst window with no more than 60 Ninki.
Every rework/patch makes jobs a bit awkward to play for a while, growing pains will pass.
If our raidbuff is 120 sec the downtime will just be the same as for everyone else. If downtime corresponds with 60 sec windows the drift will still apply to every single tank, and some DPS, which in turn will create a universal consistent delay of 2 min windows.

Lastly depending on the balance ninja will just end up being a worse version of monk in every single way. Ninjas has worse personal mit, no mantra, and probably will always have lower rdps by design compaired to monk. So I imagine most statics given the choice will always take monk over ninja if both players are good.

Or you know, possibly, it will be on par with MNK. We have no clue at this point, and can't do much except wait for the patch.

All I know for a fact is that I will revel in the fact that my job is getting better personal contribrution right in time for DS release, cause when doing that on release "waiting til my job scales well later into the patches" isn't a viable option.

I know that this is the internet and that the norm is to freak out before actually knowing what we're freaking out about, but might it make sense to actually wait for patch notes and try out the new build before definitively declaring that the sky is falling?

This ^

[Manofpassion]

I have no doubt nin will still be viable, and the game will be balanced. Whether the class will still be fun and satisfy most ninja players' idea of class identity I have doubts. This change won't be the death of ninja, but it will likely make a lot of ninja players dissatisfied with this seemingly unwarranted change. From 6 gapclosers in a row to this, I think its fair to say the devs simply don't know why ninja players even like the class.

[dadong]

Or you know, possibly, it will be on par with MNK. We have no clue at this point, and can't do much except wait for the patch.

All I know for a fact is that I will revel in the fact that my job is getting better personal contribrution right in time for DS release, cause when doing that on release "waiting til my job scales well later into the patches" isn't a viable option.

Even if the ninja did the same dps as monk they would still fall short in utility. Making them a worse choice to bring to an ultimate. Not to mention that all ninjas will be relearning their rotation if there's any ninjas left in 6.1.

And who knows what the increased personal contrabution is, we don't know the numbers right now it could be high or it could be low. It could be that they will reduce potencies on ninjas skills to compensate for trick being a personal buff. No one knows at the moment. All I know is that if the ninja has the same dps as the monk it falls short in every single way.

[Theihe]

Even if the ninja did the same dps as monk they would still fall short in utility. Making them a worse choice to bring to an ultimate. Not to mention that all ninjas will be relearning their rotation if there's any ninjas left in 6.1.

And who knows what the increased personal contrabution is, we don't know the numbers right now it could be high or it could be low. It could be that they will reduce potencies on ninjas skills to compensate for trick being a personal buff. No one knows at the moment. All I know is that if the ninja has the same dps as the monk it falls short in every single way.

Mantra is not the end all be all of ultimate content- since all the content in the game is designed around being cleared by all jobs - utility will never be the end all be all.

We'll see how the changes turn out, but I'm quite frankly very hopeful

[aloneatsea]

Mantra is not the end all be all of ultimate content- since all the content in the game is designed around being cleared by all jobs - utility will never be the end all be all.

We'll see how the changes turn out, but I'm quite frankly very hopeful

I might be misunderstanding, but I believe the point he's making is also somewhat along the lines of 'what makes Ninja special, relative to other melee jobs?'. Before these changes, you would obviously say Trick being on a 1 minute timer. After these changes, what makes Ninja distinct from Monk, or Reaper? I can't think of anything. If I were playing another role alongside a Ninja, how I'm thinking about playing my job is now exactly the same as if I were a Monk or Reaper. Dump burst in 2min party buffs, and then ignore for the rest of the fight.

[dadong]

I don't know about being hopeful, Ninjas been put through the ringer in EW and no one knows what the devs are trying to make ninja to be.