Trick Attack

[angienessyo]

Really the only thing I'm annoyed about is they're making this big change right before an Ultimate when the only reason I didn't raid this tier on NIN was I didn't feel like relearning muscle memory for the savage tier. Gonna need them to stop dropping major NIN changes when new content drops.

As for my feelings on trick changing? I mean, as long as they properly compensate us damage wise it's fine. Trick has long been a thorn in our side in terms of how Square balances us. We're either disgustingly strong because everyone is pumping big damage into trick which makes our rdps look great, or we're so weak people lock us out of joining their PFs. There's like, no in between for how we've been the past 2 expacs. We have long since lost our identity as a support dps when they gutted all our utility at the start of Shadowbringers. (anyone remember goad, shadewalker and smoke screen?)

This also has the added benefit of making us better with more casual groups. My static finished reclears forever ago so I've been assisting my much more casual friends with getting them through the tier. They all want me on my NIN even though I did this tier on RDM (I've cleared 2 ultimates+3 tiers on NIN+plan on doing DSU on it though so I still know what I'm doing). And boy, nothing makes you feel helpless quite like being a BiS NIN and seeing your friends not lining up buffs correctly so your trick is completely useless. In those situations I'd be more useful as literally any other melee that'd bring a lot more damage. I would imagine the trick change will mitigate this issue a lot, we shouldn't only be useful in more serious statics.

I've played NIN since Stormblood and trick attack has never been its identity for me and we never should have been defined by a single buff. The mudras and quick gameplay are why I enjoy the job. I don't really care what they do with it as long as it retains what I like about it. The only time I have ever dropped this job was at the start of EW because doing a million animation locked gap closers wasn't fun for me. So I'll wait and see what the balance changes look like. I don't really care if people that don't play NIN aren't happy about it.

[dadong]

besides the whole 1min to 2 min change for ninja. I really dislike making mug the raid buff. It feels like they're shoehorning it in to the ability because they're unwilling to properly reorganize ninja into a 2 min job and decided to throw the raid buff into the next available closest ability and let the players figure it out.
Again if they feel like ninja should be a 2 min job they should have made trick attack 2 mins and maybe have that the headliner for a expansion and not a patch 4 months in to and expansion.

[Kazimere]

We have made ninja's raid buff 120 secs in order to promote synergy. Now dark knights and every class that can pool resources can't synergise with trick and can just mash buttons. Please look forward to it.

That would matter if flogs actually gave the damage to the person maximizing things during TA. As it stands, everything is given to the Ninja, and that is garbage.

[Manofpassion]

Take it up with the people in charge of fflogs then. I'm only complaining here for the small chance the devs care about what the eng nin community has to say. If the game is being balanced around what the fflogs team does, that would be hilarious. Drks and whatever class with resources don't take advantage of trick for the logs, they do it to increase party dps lmao

It's a team game

[Kazimere]

Take it up with the people in charge of fflogs then. I'm only complaining here for the small chance the devs care about what the eng nin community has to say. If the game is being balanced around what the fflogs team does, that would be hilarious. Drks and whatever class with resources don't take advantage of trick for the logs, they do it to increase party dps lmao

It's a team game

So how is that going to hurt anything? The damage will just go to the ninja now, as it will output more on its own.

TA moved from a raid buff into a personal buff. That is a good thing, imo. Especially considering Ninja could swing wildly on its contribution depending on composition. Additionally, the haven’t cut it out entirely. They just moved it to a 120 and shifted the skill that applies it.

[Manofpassion]

People just don't get it. They only care about numbers and balance. I am by no means a good ninja player, but I find trick attack fun. I find mashing everything into trick attack fun. I find allowing my party to take advantage of my trick during odd minutes fun. I enjoy the “challenge” of keeping my tricks on time every minute to help my party do more damage fun. This hurts my enjoyment of the job, and what a lot of players find fun about the job. Im not a slave to damage and balance and logs. I just like the job.

And the fact people still say "they haven't cut it out entirely". They kept the icon and the name of the move, but they have changed the purpose of the move, and what the move does. You think drk's old delirium is still in the game just because the name is still around? it if looks like a duck, or doesn't look like a duck rather, it's not a duck. If you keep the animation for communio and the name but make it a healing spell, that's not the same move

Also if square really does balance the game around fflogs, I will be very amused. The guys at fflogs better get a paycheck from yoshida every month if they do half of their job for them. Square's balancing team being slaves to a formula people came up with on the Internet is just funny.

[dadong]

So how is that going to hurt anything? The damage will just go to the ninja now, as it will output more on its own.

TA moved from a raid buff into a personal buff. That is a good thing, imo. Especially considering Ninja could swing wildly on its contribution depending on composition. Additionally, the haven’t cut it out entirely. They just moved it to a 120 and shifted the skill that applies it.

you're arguing numbers and people are arguing gameplay. The changes will alter the rotation yet again in this expansion and the raid buff is moved to a skill that don't make much sense in the general ninja community. Job interaction is a fundamental aspect of a mmorpg limiting it would make the game truely boreing, and if you're concerned about dps swings because of compostion then dancers shouldn't even exist in the game.

[kackal_Jackal]

That would matter if flogs actually gave the damage to the person maximizing things during TA. As it stands, everything is given to the Ninja, and that is garbage.

How is that garbage. Giving damage to jobs feeding into buffs is inherently flawed, because you'd then want to bring jobs that have buffs just to bolster your own (essentially, just look at aDPS).

rDPS is RAID DPS. NIN brings Trick Attack, which allows players to feed into their raid buff to boost the overall damage of the raid. What the NIN brings should go back to the NIN.

Besides, the argument is not great. What FFLogs does is irrelevant and the point still stands that removing the only 1m raid buff from the game will make playing other jobs that had the option to play into Trick lackluster.

[Kazimere]

How is that garbage. Giving damage to jobs feeding into buffs is inherently flawed, because you'd then want to bring jobs that have buffs just to bolster your own (essentially, just look at aDPS).

rDPS is RAID DPS. NIN brings Trick Attack, which allows players to feed into their raid buff to boost the overall damage of the raid. What the NIN brings should go back to the NIN.

Besides, the argument is not great. What FFLogs does is irrelevant and the point still stands that removing the only 1m raid buff from the game will make playing other jobs that had the option to play into Trick lackluster.

If you think SE doesn’t know about flogs and take that into consideration then you are naive. They also plainly stated they wanted to bring raid buff windows in line with each other. Specifically on the 120 timer. Whether that is good or bad is up for debate, but it is irrelevant at this point.

[kackal_Jackal]

If you think SE doesn’t know about flogs and take that into consideration then you are naive. They also plainly stated they wanted to bring raid buff windows in line with each other. Specifically on the 120 timer. Whether that is good or bad is up for debate, but it is irrelevant at this point.

If you're going to argue, at least don't pull assumptions out of thin air lol. I never said SE doesn't know about FFLogs, it's just irrelevant for the argument about Trick Attack. Anything regarding numbers and how a job falls into meta is irrelevant when discussing how they're changing a job at the fundamental level. Homogenizing jobs for 'synergy' is lame.

60s raid buff aligns with 120s raid buffs anyway, so their reasoning for changing it still makes no sense.