Trick Attack

[Kolsykol]

The guide on The Balance Discord says '' Mug is 1 GCD before Trick AND a late weave: ''.

[butchersblock]

I liked NIN before, and I like NIN now for the same reasons that I liked it before.

I'm happy for you buddy, but that doesn't mean everyone else's concerns are invalid

[aloneatsea]

One quick question though... If Double weaving TA into Mug is hard via ping can't you use Mug about 5 seconds before other team buffs are used? Isn't it 20 seconds compared to other major buffs lasting 15 seconds?

Not unless you want to lose damage across the party, unfortunately. You can choose between popping Mug slightly early (before other raid buffs) which means part of the duration is wasted, or you can delay Trick slightly (using it a GCD into raid buffs), which means you won't fit your full burst into 15s buffs. 20s 15s, and 30s buffs are ideally all popped at about the same time, so unfortunately it's a lose-lose situation if you're on crappy ping. Best solution imo is to just eat the GCD clip and do your best.

It sometimes feels like I'm playing a different game than forum posters.

The opener changed slightly, and overcoming muscle memory took a day or so. Trick windows play very much the same as before. Mug windows are also very similar, except that the boss has two debuffs instead of one.

I liked NIN before, and I like NIN now for the same reasons that I liked it before.

No sarcasm, I am genuinely so happy for you that the changes to Ninja haven't impacted you whatsoever. Many people like various jobs for lots of different reasons! Takes all kinds, and all that.

However, your experience is not universal. The loss of Trick's 1-minute personal buff removed what I started playing Ninja for, and what I continued to play Ninja for. Many others here who are voicing their concerns feel the same. If the changes to Ninja didn't impact you, that's fine! This sentiment of this thread isn't for you, in that case. It's for those of us who did feel and continue to feel its impact.

Worst part is that I don't really enjoy any other jobs, and even if I did, Ninja is the only one I have geared (due to Scouting gear not sharing a class) so I'm stuck playing a version of Ninja that doesn't feel good, and isn't what I really wish I was playing, but I can't switch off...

[Equitable_Remedy]

The loss of Trick's 1-minute personal buff removed what I started playing Ninja for, and what I continued to play Ninja for.

Just to clarify, because this is an oft-repeated statement in this thread: you didn't play NIN for the ninjustu, for the weapon/magic gish, for the burst windows, for the aesthetic, but for exactly the one-minute group debuff (rather than one-minute personal debuff, which it still has)?

Put another way: if you moved the debuff tray so that you couldn't see which debuff you were applying, NIN would be unplayable? As you say, it takes all kinds.

This sentiment of this thread isn't for you

I actually think that it's ok, at least on occasion, to express heterodox opinions. Otherwise, people come away thinking that everyone thinks a thing, even when that's obviously untrue.

[aloneatsea]

snip

Yes, if I must keep repeating myself ad infinitum, the support aspect of Ninja is why I picked the class. Before I even installed the infamous free trial, I did my research on what class I wanted to pick up. I knew I wanted to play something with support/buffing capabilities, but knew I hated casters and having to stand still, so healing was out. Bard wasn't appealing to me, and Dancer wasn't available to me on the free trial, which left Ninja and Trick Attack as my best option. I tried it, and fell in love with it for many of the reasons you listed above, but most of all for Trick and how the class worked around it. When I first got into Savage raiding, it was unbelievably exciting talking with my group about the different ways we could adjust things to maximise the power of Trick. I still fondly remember conversations with the Samurai I was partnered with for Eden about how it felt so good to see Trick come up right on time as he was about to start his one-minute burst.

So yes, despite your insinuations that I'm lying or that what I'm saying isn't true, Trick was and always has been a major part of why I play Ninja.

I don't really understand what you mean by your debuff tray comment, but I don't think you're trying to understand me in good faith either, so I'll elect to ignore it.

As for "expressing heterodox opinions"! Yes! You are more than welcome to continue posting about this if it means that much to you. But, as you've said, Ninja is "still" fun for you, implying nothing has changed on your end.

What do you gain by trying to keep this current iteration of Ninja? If it's all the same to you, why not let us express our discontent in peace and you can continue enjoying Ninja as you currently are? The only thing I can think of is that you actually prefer this current iteration of Ninja, in which case I'd be interested to hear why.

[aloneatsea]

Something I've seen tossed around is the idea that these changes were made in order to better balance Ninja for the new ultimate. Given that it's still absurdly strong due to the nature of it's 1-minute burst (which is now buffed by 10% instead of 5%...), what do you think of this?

I'm not sure if there's any historical precedent for large job changes being introduced right before an ultimate release. Did things like this occur before TEA, or UWU or UCOB? I know Ninja was changed drastically in the 5.1 patch, but that seemed to be more a long-overdue overhaul of how Ninja worked in order to make it ping-friendly, as opposed to changing the core of how the job worked.

Very interested to hear some other opinions on this.