Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Mimilu]

I'm pretty sure that's the thinking behind the healer DPS rotation. Why make additional buttons when the current ones are already effective for DPS purpose?

With that logic, why should any role have more then one dps button when we can compound them?

Also, some questions about your healing rotation idea:
How would the different spells in the combo be differentiated from each other?
Would the first spell be weak with the following spells be increasing in potency?
Would MP-regeneration be tied to the last spell in the combo?
Could these combo be broken by using another GCD action?
How would you differentiate them between the 4 healers?
And how would this system evolve over the coming expansions?

[IDontPetLalas]

I'm pretty sure that's the thinking behind the healer DPS rotation. Why make additional buttons when the current ones are already effective for DPS purpose?

And remember, that's the reason behind my idea in the first place. SE doesn't seem to want to give DPS rotation. People want rotation. This is one idea for that. Is it the only or best solution? Probably not, but you all are just attacking it based on "current design philosophy" when that seems to be tangential to the point.

You say this, and yet the next thing you say is:

Do you really think that actually shows how something is nonfunctional or is that a perception issue?

Let's dive into that further.

What do you mean by not actively contributing to the party? Are you saying that the healer does not do DPS at all? Because I never said that. Do you mean per GCD damage contribution? Does that matter in the overall scheme? When fights are scripted, can't the job be designed to be able to output within a certain range of damage over a specified time?

And again, they are not doing nothing. Replenishing MP for the purpose of doing damage is not doing nothing. If it is, again, that's a perception issue, not a functionality issue.

You also missed the part of my idea where GCD healings cost no MP.




Regarding GCD vs oGCD heals, yes that is the case now, but that's because of how they work currently. Is there a reason why they cannot work differently?

Ah, now, that last part about a fifth DPS might be something to consider, but if it does happen, it won't be because healers are not contributing damage, because they still will over the specified time necessary, just not on every GCD.

Basically, this is a flawed design:

you insist on ignoring how healers prefer to heal with OGCDs- and with good reason.
you insist on forcing a clunky and convoluted MP regeneration system just to provide healers with a rotation, when (a) there is a simpler system in place and more importantly various people have pointed out more eloquently than I that the fundamental rotation that propose would be useless for a good part of the time. Many healers don't want a useless rotation, they have made some proposals that are consistent with veteran healers experience and this game's design philosophy which is not at all tangential. From your replies you don't seem to understand this, and you won't even come to basic recognition that healers, like any other job, expect to and want to contribute to their party and if they don't- they end up being replaced.

I mean, you can continue to argue as much as you want, and insist that this is an enhancement to the current design, however I don't see where this will go. fundamentally, I would disagree. Full stop.

[Thoosa]

The best we can hope for is more dps buttons on healers, but that won’t happen because “omg this will increase the pressure on healers” even though healers are expected to dps anyway, so they’ll get a million new OP ogcd heals instead.

[Thoosa]

Also people forget that the game is extremely scripted in relation to incoming damage, how mechanics should be handled and probably enrage timers and other stuff, so probably adding more dps skills to healers would upset balance and those scripted things, it also stifles creativity on healers and tanks probably more than the dps jobs. It is what it is sadly.

[AnnRam]

why are people so damn adamant to not want to give healers more DPS options?

Otherwise they couldn't watch Netflix/YT while playing their job.

[IDontPetLalas]

Also people forget that the game is extremely scripted in relation to incoming damage, how mechanics should be handled and probably enrage timers and other stuff, so probably adding more dps skills to healers would upset balance and those scripted things, it also stifles creativity on healers and tanks probably more than the dps jobs. It is what it is sadly.

Really? Exactly how would it "upset balance'?
Let's take the case that a extra DPS skill is added to all healing jobs. Do you really think that all of a sudden their DPS output goes up by, let's say- 50%? because I don't see that happening. Are we now getting back to a new way of saying "if you want to be a DPS, play a DPS "?

[Thoosa]

Really? Exactly how would it "upset balance'?
Let's take the case that a extra DPS skill is added to all healing jobs. Do you really think that all of a sudden their DPS output goes up by, let's say- 50%? because I don't see that happening. Are we now getting back to a new way of saying "if you want to be a DPS, play a DPS "?

I’ve no idea, but there has to be some technical reason because the “don’t want to put pressure on healers” argument is resolved by ogcd heals.

In Stormblood (I think?) WHM had aero 3 and SCH had shadowflare and something else and they took them away, can’t remember the reasons why.

[WaxSw]

Do you really think that actually shows how something is nonfunctional or is that a perception issue?

It shows that is disfunctional, no one wants to be forced into a heal only mp regen phase because while the mp regen may have some value healing is not something always desired, once again ice phase for blm works because it does damage which is always desired, can be optimized with damage cooldowns and its duration is entirely in control of the player.

What do you mean by not actively contributing to the party?

Unnecesary healing and overhealing has no value at all, thats what we're telling you for the last pages if damage does not threaten your life it doesnt need to be healed and if you're healing something that does not need to be healed you're not providing any value to your party

Replenishing MP for the purpose of doing damage is not doing nothing

It is, its very badly designed because at that point you lock us of doing something useful for arbitrary reasons and force us to do useless shit, once again ice in BLM works because it does damage, while in ice BLM still has value, a healer forced to unnecesary heal to get mp back does not and allienates the better and more efficient players because that whole "gotta make good use of my resources" that is the core of healing gameplay goes to shit.

Is there a reason why they cannot work differently?

As long as they retain the oportunity costs (which your system still has) no, they can't.

Ah, now, that last part about a fifth DPS might be something to consider, but if it does happen, it won't be because healers are not contributing damage, because they still will over the specified time necessary, just not on every GCD

It would 100%, without a single trace of doubt be because of damage and overall party performance, if a healer has to forcefully heal then what any reasonable party would do is make sure those forced healing phases hold some value, as valuable healing is a finite resources the easier way to do it is reducing the amount of forced healing income.

To put it simple, lets say you have bucket of 10L that you empty every minute and money to put up to 2 pipelines that pour water at a rate of 5L per 30s, what any reasonable person would do is just buy one of those and save the money of the second instead of having both open and waste water 30s of a minute, that is exactly the same that happens with your design. You have certain capacity (HPS required) and 2 consistent sources of that, if that capacity can be filled with just one of those sources the money (party slot) of the second one is better spent on other places (bringing an extra dps)

[HyoMinPark]

I’ve no idea, but there has to be some technical reason because the “don’t want to put pressure on healers” argument is resolved by ogcd heals.

In Stormblood (I think?) WHM had aero 3 and SCH had shadowflare and something else and they took them away, can’t remember the reasons why.

Streamlining and oversimplification. Much the reason aspects of other jobs have been removed throughout the years. Not because having a second DoT or Shadowflare upset the balance and broke the healers relative to the content they were in.

For DoTs specifically, they stated that a lot of DoT removal was due to how many DoTs can be applied at once to a target, and too many DoTs resulted in jobs like BRD and SMN losing damage because the DoTs didn’t register. Since both jobs had abilities that relied on DoT application (Sidewinder for BRD, and Fester for SMN), this was extremely detrimental to them. However, neither of those aspects exist anymore—BRD DoTs don’t interact with any aspect of the job as of EW; Sidewinder is just a flat potency. And SMN doesn’t even have DoTs at this point, so it is very much possible to re-add a DoT or two back to the healers without running into this limitation. And it wouldn’t upset the balance.

[Aword3213]

Except it wouldn't be. How would you get from level 1 to level 2 without offense? Book / Cane smacks alone? Now multiply that by 90 levels. See the problem?

If you must ask, quests, FATE with friendly NPCs, new Trust/Squadron in future patches..etc. There're already systems in the game that can support such gameplay like replacing our hotbar with an entire different toolkit during certain events. Same can be applied to healers if SE somehow determined to completely remove all offensive tools from healers.