Looking back at this Yoshi P statement(story spoilers)

[KizuyaKatogami]

These were already called out in my posts.

I already mentioned in my post that there were 2 games in the series that have main party character death (FFII and FFVII). I even called out FFVI in regards to a main character dying if you don’t recruit them back (Shadow).

FFXII falls into my second post where I said guest party characters are free game. Reks and Reddas are both guest party members, not main party characters who are considered the main cast. All 6 main characters walk away from the events of FFXII with nothing more than bumps and bruises.

FFX falls into the part of my second post where I said “outside of the ending”. No main characters die outside of the absolute end of the game after gameplay is over. One of those characters has already been dead for 10 years and the other’s death was reversed by the end of the sequel.



If you’re playing a game and expect the antagonists to come out unscathed and get upset they didn’t because you got attached to them, that’s on you. “Antagonist in a video game” is a profession that doesn’t exactly have a high survival rate.

You seemed to have forgotten about galuf from ff5 though, as well as tellah from ff4, as well as rem from ff type 0, point is theres a lot, and its a pretty common trend in the series.

Id argue the same rule youre applying about antagonists could be applied to people and protagonists as well, especially when the setting has to do with war, death, sacrifices, and suffering. Playing a game that deals with these issues and expecting the protagonists to come out unscathed and getting ipset because you got attached to them, sounds a lot like thats on them as well.Unless we're playing the double standard game here.

The fact here is there are numerous points characters could have died in EW, where it would have great impact and have some meaning. What immediately comes to my mind is the body snatcher plot, which amounted to nothing. They could have used that as a chance to have some death or consequence. Especially when you have Zenos in 5.4/5.5 talking about he will make sure we come to him full of rage....yet nothing happens to that. This is what i mean, dropped plot points because they dont want to kill anone off, so we get horrible cliffhangers like the body swap plot. ITs just as detrimental to the plot as anything else.

XIV's story is still ongoing, even if the first saga is complete. And I think the death count for the first saga is pretty good already. To compare it to already finished products and stories that don't need to think about '' oh damn wish we could use this character again but we can't because we offed them '' or '' will the fans of this characters stop enjoying and subscribing to our product if we off them now '' is pretty wack to me. Yeah yeah, artistic integrity or whatnot, but that goes both ways: if the writers don't want to kill anyone right now, then that is their freedom to do so yuh.

Well this is part of the problem, what if they do want to kill someone off but wont due to the community? We already know 5.3 had two potential plots and they changed it to suit community responses at the time, and Matsuno came out saying he wanted Bozja to have some deaths but some of the devs wouldnt let him.

[MikkoAkure]

You seemed to have forgotten about galuf from ff5 though, as well as tellah from ff4, as well as rem from ff type 0, point is theres a lot, and its a pretty common trend in the series.

I did forget about those, but that’s still 4 times out of 15. I don’t count Type-0 because otherwise you’d need to include all the sequels and spin-offs and that would just end up lowering the death to non-death (outside of ending) ratio even more.

Id argue the same rule youre applying about antagonists could be applied to people and protagonists as well, especially when the setting has to do with war, death, sacrifices, and suffering.

There’s still a precedence in FF games that I’ve already described for the main cast to come out A-OK just as there is for main party members to drop dead in the middle of the game. FFXIV ends up being the former rather than the latter. The writers/devs decided not to pull out the scythe here, which I personally think makes more sense for an MMO.

Unless we're playing the double standard game here.

It’s a fact of life that villains/antagonists in media die at a far higher rate than heroes/protagonists.

It would be odd to be shocked and upset and wonder “why they had to kill them?” when an antagonist dies when that’s generally what they do. Most fantasy stories end with protagonists living, antagonists dead.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I did forget about those, but that’s still 4 times out of 15. I don’t count Type-0 because otherwise you’d need to include all the sequels and spin-offs and that would just end up lowering the death to non-death (outside of ending) ratio even more.



There’s still a precedence in FF games that I’ve already described for the main cast to come out A-OK just as there is for main party members to drop dead in the middle of the game. FFXIV ends up being the former rather than the latter. The writers/devs decided not to pull out the scythe here, which I personally think makes more sense for an MMO.



It’s a fact of life that villains/antagonists in media die at a far higher rate than heroes/protagonists.

It would be odd to be shocked and upset and wonder “why they had to kill them?” when an antagonist dies when that’s generally what they do. Most fantasy stories end with protagonists living, antagonists dead.

Just as most fictional media depicting wars,strife,and suffering have death on both sides of the table, which i dont even know why we're arguing it when even Yoshi P agrees with this. So its odd to be shocked that an antagonist dies, but its not odd to not be shocked that none of the protagonists even had a scratch on them after saving the world from a threat that initially decimated the entire planet... Okay lol, double standrd at its finest i guess.

Either way, its been 3 expansions now, basically 3 games that none of the scions have had severe consequences or death occur to them. Personally, it crosses a line when they try to preach to me about needing to accept suffering and sacrifice but then have their main cast be immune to such things and dont have to experience it. Again, it comes off as rather tone deaf and just insincere.Especially when usually as of late, its only the antagonists having to suffer and sacrifice. Never the heroes. Whats the moral here? No matter how much you suffer and sacrifice you'll still lose and some people just have the luck of being perfect?

[SturmChurro]

I mean, okay? I have a hard time believing anything they say about death when they constantly do fake outs every expansion. Even at 5.3/5.3 Y'shtola had "died" what 2 times already? Idk I've lost count. Also, I'm going to be that person, the ending to Endwalker was complete garbage. It was basically Oprah Winfrey just going "You get a fake out death and you get a fake out death! EVERYBODY GETS FAKE OUT DEAAAAAAAAATHHHHHSSSSS!!!!!!11!!!"

The sheer amount of 'fake out' deaths completely trivialize the struggle and emotional impact of story elements. It's overused to a ridiculous degree.

[Rulakir]

So many complaint's about major (friendly) characters not dying in Endwalker while forgetting about the major (friendly) character that you've known since, I dunno, level 15 or so, who dies and doesn't even go to the Aetherial Sea.

Not all of us viewed her as friendly. Personally, I considered her an antagonist. Just because she 'benefited' the WoL (more like needed the WoL to fulfill her plan) didn't mean she wasn't guilty of atrocious crimes against mankind. I'm glad she's gone-gone and can no longer pose a threat to the world.

In addition to Venat, technically Hades and Hyth count as major character deaths in Endwalker, even if not really handled as such.

They were all technically dead though. Venat sacrificed herself to become Hydaelyn's heart. Hythlodaeus sacrificed himself to Zodiark. We killed Emet in 5.0. This is what I meant by every notable character death in EW was of someone who had already died in the past.

[AziraSyuren]

I think it's funny those comments came after 5.3's ridiculously obvious fanservice driven epilogue doing a 180 on a long foreshadowed sacrifice.

Okay, G'raha Tia, of all characters, is honestly a really bad example of this trend. The dude jumped at every opportunity he could to sacrifice himself, and was explicitly called out for it in ShB. There was no better indicator of his character growth than to, when offered a chance to sacrifice himself, choose to find a way to live on. Like, Y'shtola and Thancred's fake-out deaths were both incredibly egregious and brought down the quality of story, but G'raha dying would've been a betrayal of his character.

[EaraGrace]

Either way, its been 3 expansions now, basically 3 games that none of the scions have had severe consequences or death occur to them. Personally, it crosses a line when they try to preach to me about needing to accept suffering and sacrifice but then have their main cast be immune to such things and dont have to experience it. Again, it comes off as rather tone deaf and just insincere.Especially when usually as of late, its only the antagonists having to suffer and sacrifice. Never the heroes. Whats the moral here? No matter how much you suffer and sacrifice you'll still lose and some people just have the luck of being perfect?

Don’t mind me just passin through with some unrelated images

[Gemina]

Thancred should be dead four times over
Y'stola at least twice that i can think of
Alisaie constantly needs to be rescued from herself
Urianger is lucky WoL is very forgiving

Meanwhile, Minfillia killed off not once. Not twice. But three times. Take that Thancred!

[KizuyaKatogami]

Don’t mind me just passin through with some unrelated images

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Did you not read what i put. Papalymo was HW, 3 expansions ago.Minfilia was essentially dead by the end of ARR but sure, ill be generous and say HW, still 3 expansions ago. Timeline wise Ardbert was dead in HW as well, and Hydaelyn/Venat? Please lmao. To many shes an antagonist and not really a main character.Id rather you post some related images rather than trying to derail the thread with unrelated ones thank you. Like the other poster said, all the "deaths" in EW were already dead people lmao.

[EaraGrace]

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Did you not read what i put. Papalymo was HW, 3 expansions ago.Minfilia was essentially dead by the end of ARR but sure, ill be generous and say HW, still 3 expansions ago. Timeline wise Ardbert was dead in HW as well, and Hydaelyn/Venat? Please lmao. To many shes an antagonist and not really a main character.Id rather you post some related images rather than trying to derail the thread with unrelated ones thank you.

“You can’t use a character who died in 3.5! Only 4.0 and later!”

“No not those ones! They died in Heavensward despite being up and about for an entire expansion!”

“No not that one! I didn’t like that one!”