What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Teraq]

This sorta hinges on people believing it's Hermes's fault tho.
I can't remember exactly but I don't think it was said that it was Hermes who like single-handidly built it or anything.

This isn't about accusing Hermes of anything (yet), nor about where the convenient memory wipe machine comes from or who made it, it's about finding out what the hell happened to one of the most important dudes in the world because it involves something that is apparently 1. not known to Elpis outsiders like Emet and 2. skirting the law.

I just... I don't know, does this convenient memory wipe machine not keep any log of its activities?? I suppose not, its legality looks to be dubious in the first place, might as well go all the way with dodgy design. Can't the memory wipe spell it casts be reverse engineered and undone like the Sharlayan Council does with its members? I suppose not, because...?? (handwaves)

Also, this doesn't really have to hinge on anyone's word either. We were able to conveniently use our Echo on that floating island to watch Hermes talk to Meteion on the waifu space probe launch day. Is this just a Sundered Azem thing? I suppose so, otherwise an Ancient with this ability could just have watched the post-Ktisis cutscene, and oops.

The Ancients before this I think it's at least implied didn't exactly have a lot of bad stuff happening

Honestly, the fact that whatever law it is about memory wiping even exists in the first place, the overall complex processes surrounding their creation magicks (evaluation, official approval and archiving, etc), and Themis making casual mention of mind control spells in Pandaemonium (and that he flat out asks Eric "you would rather capture Hesperos than take him out after what he did?" honestly my little guy I don't know what sort of things you've been witness to so far but eesh) make me believe that bad stuff has definitely happened in their history (or that, at least, they were absolutely not naive about potential disaster). After all, this is a world where anyone could potentially come up with a world-ending creation and simply not tell anyone or register it anywhere. Personally, the way I view Ancients is that every single of them could be a ticking time bomb, and yet they've apparently been living in peace for who knows how long, which is, frankly, a miracle.

maybe the suppression field in Ktisis was beginning to affect everyone's cerebral functions on Elpis as well.

I like this. I guess Hermes's greatest creation wasn't stratospheric birds after all, it was the Idiot Ball he materialized and passed everyone.

As for Emet-Selch, it was always clear to me that he cared more than he let on. I don't think, for example, that it was a coincidence that he sought to empower the very people who suffered the most amongst the Sundered as a consequence of the Sundering. Namely the Garleans. It makes me wonder what he would have done had his son not died in the way that he did.

Since the 4.4 reveal, I've always seen the case of Garlemald from the Ascian PoV of "these people have long been persecuted for who they are, they're ripe for cultivating resentment and grooming them into a force to promote further chaos". Garleans just keep getting the short end of the stick tbh

I mean, hey, it's pretty consistent with Emet inviting us to the Tempest because he felt bad for us, when just leaving us alone as we were would have completely secured his victory. Or giving in and helping us with Y'shtola, who then went and helped kill him later, too. Bleeding heart gonna bleeding heart. He feels the need to act outwardly caustic because his kindness and the empathy he feels for others, in spite of himself, basically tends to leads him to self-sabotage - both in Shadowbringers and Endwalker. It doesn't help that he's terrible at communication and being honest with others. Emet-Selch is a mess! (Unsurprisingly, I love him as a character.)

Emet-Selch: "And I would never do something as stupid as allowing you into my lair!"
Narrator: "He did."

[Lauront]

Honestly, the fact that whatever law it is about memory wiping even exists in the first place, the overall complex processes surrounding their creation magicks (evaluation, official approval and archiving, etc), and Themis making casual mention of mind control spells in Pandaemonium (and that he flat out asks Eric "you would rather capture Hesperos than take him out after what he did?" honestly my little guy I don't know what sort of things you've been witness to so far but eesh) make me believe that bad stuff has definitely happened in their history (or that, at least, they were absolutely not naive about potential disaster). After all, this is a world where anyone could potentially come up with a world-ending creation and simply not tell anyone or register it anywhere. Personally, the way I view Ancients is that every single of them could be a ticking time bomb, and yet they've apparently been living in peace for who knows how long, which is, frankly, a miracle.

Yup, they're acutely aware of such risks. The backstory of their custom of the robes and masks does suggest a more conflict-ridden past they moved away from and Venat utters similar words when she mentions they were only spared of suffering for a time. You can also see it in the regulation over the concepts and the tight control over facilities like the Anyder ones, plus the security protocols Pandaemonium has, to sever it from the rest of the world if it were to become a problem. Elpis is the stand out in all this, and even then like I mentioned, it had attracted the interest of a member of Anamnesis Anyder's operations for the lack of clarity on some of its procedures. I also read it as being the basis for why Azem violating the Convocation's protocol in the Elidibus short story is a reason for censure in the first place - they have these controls in place for a reason. Meteion is rather unique in that she was based on a form of energy that was elusive to them (and apparently virtually every other civilisation.) It's why I mention the idiot ball being rather specific to Elpis.

[PawPaw]

Also, this doesn't really have to hinge on anyone's word either. We were able to conveniently use our Echo on that floating island to watch Hermes talk to Meteion on the waifu space probe launch day. Is this just a Sundered Azem thing? I suppose so, otherwise an Ancient with this ability could just have watched the post-Ktisis cutscene, and oops.

I thought that that scene made it pretty clear that this was an "everyone here can do this" thing that we were just being taught how to use properly use for once. She did say that this was how they preserve history and I assume she wasn't just talking about herself. Just a part of the original powers that the Echo stems from.

In any case, it negates everything that comes after because if you lose a memory, seems like it'd be damn easy to get that back by walking a few feet and activating your brain but...I'm just looking at the story too closely like Yoshi-P said, I guess. My bad for expecting basic logic in said story.

[KageTokage]

I thought that that scene made it pretty clear that this was an "everyone here can do this" thing that we were just being taught how to use properly use for once. She did say that this was how they preserve history and I assume she wasn't just talking about herself. Just a part of the original powers that the Echo stems from.

In any case, it negates everything that comes after because if you lose a memory, seems like it'd be damn easy to get that back by walking a few feet and activating your brain but...I'm just looking at the story too closely like Yoshi-P said, I guess.

This just reminds me that whoever wrote the Bozja storyline was missing critical information when they decided to make Mikoto able to glimpse the future with the excuse that she lacked the fundamental quality of being able to glimpse the past using the Echo.

Never mind the further illogicality that if there were actually seers like that back in the time of the Ancients the Final Days would not have caught them off-guard as badly as it did.

If/when she shows up again I hope they'll just pretend she never had that ability in the first place since it's not like it actually contributed to anything meaningful anyways...outside of being Resonant fodder, which was similarly unneeded when they could've just as easily had an innate Echo user be an antagonist instead.

That's just me expressing annoyance at one of the only other story aspects MSQ or otherwise that made me go "But why" in hindsight, though.

[Kyohei]

That's the risk when multiple people write for different contents within the same game. Not enough consultation with each other and a detail that will lead to inconsistency can pass through.
We can extend that to the msq story too actually.
However, future sighting being has recurrent thing. The Mol grandma seem to have prophetic visions and hehe...Azem himself/herself seem to somehow have glimpses of future too as he saw us come to Elpis and notified to Themis.

[KageTokage]

That's the risk when multiple people write for different contents within the same game. Not enough consultation with each other and a detail that will lead to inconsistency can pass through.
We can extend that to the msq story too actually.

Ishikawa mentioning she had intended to hand the story off to "junior writers" honestly has me feeling really concerned and I kind of hope they specifically mention who's doing 7.0 so we can have an idea of what to expect.

I think the absolute worst case scenario would be a Garlean-focused story penned by whoever did Bozja because they really don't know to do morally grey when they were trying to push team war crimes AKA the IVth legion as somehow being viewed as benign enough to have attracted a significant number of foreign conscripts and defectors.