What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Brinne]

Forgot to remark on this... I think it's less about saving them and more about preserving the present:

Trying hard to not outright be like "wow, this feels comically terrible," but, uh, wow, this feels comically terrible!

[KageTokage]

Trying hard to not outright be like "wow, this feels comically terrible," but, uh, wow, this feels comically terrible!

I'm still wondering what kind of payoff they intend to get out of the Pandemonium. I'm mostly hoping it's not being done strictly to flesh out characters post-mortem so we can feel worse about their fates and that it'll end up teasing some kind of future threat that's going to need to be addressed in a coming expansion.

I'm also genuinely a bit concerned by the fact that Myths of the Realm seems very likely to be set in the past as well, because there's already two awkward causal loops in play as is which is further muddled by Azem seemingly knowing we were going to show up. It's opened my mind to awkward possibilities going into the future of the MSQ that I really hope do not come to fruition.

I just want them to let go of the time-wimey shenanigans completely going into 7.x onwards, since it already felt like they were intending to do that back in 5.x when we broke the Crystal Tower's malfunctioning core in the Twinning.

[Iscah]

Forgot to remark on this... I think it's less about saving them and more about preserving the present:

Time loop logic says that this shouldn't actually be a concern. Whatever the outcome of events in Pandæmonium, they've already become part of our present. Our lack of knowledge also means we can safely meddle without affecting the present either, but I don't believe it would threaten us either way.

Still, that's Claudien's read on the situation and I assume the generic-WoL isn't really up with all this time travel convolution to assess whether that's an accurate concern or not.

[PawPaw]

I had the exact opposite impression. What stuck out to me was their obsession with purpose. And how if that purpose was fulfilled, they felt they had nothing more to give and would move on to the aetherial sea.

We'll have to agree to disagree then because I find this to be an absolutely wonderful aspect of their culture. To find what it is you personally want to do in life and to be able to pursue that goal to the fullest and then when you're tired and feel there is nothing more for you to do, to pass on and rest for a while before being reborn? Sounds great to me. And it's obviously something that is the individual's choice. No one is forced to move on and while people may not fully understand the desire to stay, they certainly don't seem to be shunning those who do decide to.

Every day I see people around me who are just going through the motions. Ever watch faces on a subway in the morning? Most people don't get to do what they truly love for a living, they just do what they have to do to pay the bills and there is no joy in it. Slow march to the end. So yeah, I find a society in which one can embrace their talents and use them to the fullest as well as live out their lives in peace with their loved ones before choosing when they want to rest to be pretty ideal. Why should one choose to drag life out for the sake of finding a new purpose? If one feels content with what theyve accomplished in their life then why should it be odd to move on? Who the hell would want to live forever? Sounds like a nightmare.

And to be honest, Venat strikes me as being one of those people who thinks that nothing can be done correctly if they're not the ones doing it. Not surprising at all that she stuck around.

[Rulakir]

I don't have an issue with time travel in alternate timeline settings, like what we had in the ShB MSQ, but these time loops are convoluted and not satisfying.

[PawPaw]

I'm mostly hoping it's not being done strictly to flesh out characters post-mortem so we can feel worse about their fates

I'm positive that this is a major part of it. We'll get to know little Themis and that promise that he made but he couldnt remember who he made it to? That'll be us. And then we can feel even worse about killing an old friend in the future. Who knows what they'll do with Lahabrea but I'm sure they'll find a way to humanize him also.

[Brinne]

I'm positive that this is a major part of it. We'll get to know little Themis and that promise that he made but he couldnt remember who he made it to? That'll be us. And then we can feel even worse about killing an old friend in the future.

JUSTICE FOR THEMIS! >:O

Also, I can understand being careful about the angle of "why should we bother to help if it doesn't benefit us", especially for writers of a video game, anticipating that mindset being a factor in player responses to being asked to help in a conflict - but it rings a bit differently when the context is not "saving them also saves us" as in Shadowbringers, but with a group of people we ultimately choose to leave doomed to benefit us, lmao. Run from Azem's familiar, Themis! They speak naught but lies! Run!

[Iscah]

Trying to find a justification rather than a plot hole (because whether we like the story or not, we're stuck with it and I'd rather make it make sense), it strikes me that whatever Kairos does to erase the subject's memories in the first place could easily also obliterate any Echo-traces hanging in the air around it.

It's also possible that Venat went on the run after this, and nobody from the Convocation ever caught up to her to ask the difficult questions.

(Oops, this was replying to someone several pages back. I thought I was in another thread that I was more up-to-date on. They're all starting to look the same.)

[Kyohei]

Trying to find a justification rather than a plot hole (because whether we like the story or not, we're stuck with it and I'd rather make it make sense), it strikes me that whatever Kairos does to erase the subject's memories in the first place could easily also obliterate any Echo-traces hanging in the air around it.

It's also possible that Venat went on the run after this, and nobody from the Convocation ever caught up to her to ask the difficult questions.

"I'd rather make it make sense", precisely, it's a bit sad to have to do that however.

Though, I still don't find the echo as a necessity to explain everything again. It sure would be an absolute way to prove it, but there were many other elements and witnesses to rely on.
It does feel she intended to avoid contact with them and possibly also went on the run, at least to find and gather her "trusted" people.

[Vahlnir]

"I'd rather make it make sense", precisely, it's a bit sad to have to do that however.

Though, I still don't find the echo as a necessity to explain everything again. It sure would be an absolute way to prove it, but there were many other elements and witnesses to rely on.
It does feel she intended to avoid contact with them and possibly also went on the run, at least to find and gather her "trusted" people.

The thing is though that she probably shouldn't have been "on the run" to begin with if that was indeed the case. Everything we saw indicated that she was highly respected by her peers, though they did seem to think she was a little too worldly by their standards. Either way it wouldn't have been difficult to for her to make her case to the Convocation. It sort of comes down to SE writing themselves into a corner. If she had been able to change the course of their history, our characters and the world we know would cease to exist. Kinda hard to do that in an MMORPG when our characters and the game world sorta need to continue existing.