Job action combos one button

[Istaru]

you never pvp do you
or hey, remember playing as Thancred where his combo gets consolidated?

I do and I do.

If it helps at all, just add a /s to my post.

While there is no real skill required to memorize and repeat a series of button presses, if you are going to slim down the combat to pressing 1 button over and over for your GCD actions, why not go all the way? As for the rest of the post, I was taking the **** on the entire idea.

I truly hate this idea, I despise that it was ever added to PVP and we will see these posts nonstop until the end of time or they give in and do it. At which point, the requests will change to now be requests to add more things into it until we have the famed JP button from FFXI.

That was the point of my post, that these requests are ridiculous.

[Shurrikhan]

I do and I do.

If it helps at all, just add a /s to my post.

While there is no real skill required to memorize and repeat a series of button presses, if you are going to slim down the combat to pressing 1 button over and over for your GCD actions, why not go all the way?

It's still an extension far into the absurd.

The effects are nowhere close; optionally unbloating some 6 to 14% of one's buttons does not reduce one's play to a single button. The intentions are nowhere close; consolidating skills that are already mutually exclusive in practice has no interest in making the game "auto-win".

[hagare]

I do and I do.

If it helps at all, just add a /s to my post.

While there is no real skill required to memorize and repeat a series of button presses, if you are going to slim down the combat to pressing 1 button over and over for your GCD actions, why not go all the way? As for the rest of the post, I was taking the **** on the entire idea.

I truly hate this idea, I despise that it was ever added to PVP and we will see these posts nonstop until the end of time or they give in and do it. At which point, the requests will change to now be requests to add more things into it until we have the famed JP button from FFXI.

That was the point of my post, that these requests are ridiculous.

so instead of one combo set you prefer a meaningless 123 combo.
There are other buttons you know.
Why not all the way? Because not everything is meaninglessly bloated.
People aren't asking this so the gameplay becomes easier. Hell, the APM is the same.
the only change is which button you press. Instead of 123, it's now just 111. With the proper oGCD in between.
If you used to press 1>C1>2>C2>3>C3, it's now 1>C1>1>C2>1>C3. Same six actions.
And you know this.
You admitted that it's meaningless and takes no real skill just having 3 buttons for 3 actions with artificial differences.
So rather than an /s on your post, a /disingenuous would be more appropriate.

[Saraide]

so instead of one combo set you prefer a meaningless 123 combo.
There are other buttons you know.
Why not all the way? Because not everything is meaninglessly bloated.
People aren't asking this so the gameplay becomes easier. Hell, the APM is the same.
the only change is which button you press. Instead of 123, it's now just 111. With the proper oGCD in between.
If you used to press 1>C1>2>C2>3>C3, it's now 1>C1>1>C2>1>C3. Same six actions.
And you know this.
You admitted that it's meaningless and takes no real skill just having 3 buttons for 3 actions with artificial differences.
So rather than an /s on your post, a /disingenuous would be more appropriate.

It does make the job easier though, the attention you need for where you are in your combo is suddenly freed up entirely.

(snip)

Calling it an option is pretty irrelevant, it's inherently linked to job balance and fight difficulty. Options have to be designed around. Breaking combo is an attention thing, if it's a matter of dexterity I'd wager the real problem is proper hotbar setup.

I can see your point with combo steps that are completely unavailable outside the specific time you are supposed to press them. That's why I wasnt against the cartridge combo collapse on gunbreaker. I wouldnt apply that logic to all combos in the game however.

This game's pve combat system is designed around keeping your rotation going, that's where job difficulty comes from. So every part of the rotation that gets automated away makes the job and therefore the game easier. PvP on the other hand focuses more on correct prioritization of enemies and objectives. The role play duties on the other hand have intentionally extremely dumbed down versions of jobs because they cant assume that you know what any of the regular job actions do. Which makes the pure combat roleplay duties a bit dull from a gameplay standpoint and makes the this is thancred duty shine more because it takes a different approach.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

It does make the job easier though, the attention you need for where you are in your combo is suddenly freed up entirely.

Not if you have positionals, as said before.

This game's pve combat system is designed around keeping your rotation going, that's where job difficulty comes from. So every part of the rotation that gets automated away makes the job and therefore the game easier.

Job are easier or harder depending on how hard it is to optimize your rotation to the boss, not how hard it is to keep your rotation going, hence why physical ranged are almost always considered easier than hard casters or melees. Every monkey with half a brain can have a perfect rotation on a dummy, given he has the adequate inputs, and inputs do not discriminate better players, they discriminate against people that have disabilites.

What makes a good player isn't their ability to do their rotation, but to adjust to every fight, do mechanics perfectly, and keep uptime. Rotations are the fun part, not the hard part. But, by having bloating issues, you discriminate some players from being able to do their rotation effectively, and thus, from playing at a good level.

Some pages ago, someone said that you could macro different hotbars to have the same input do different skills, but that is not really an option as well, since it's basically like adding an oGCD in your rotation every time you need to swap hotbars, so it makes life harder for those that can't do the same number of input that you do.

All in all, the best way to ensure people with disabilities can play like the rest of us is to give that option to players.

[Saraide]

Not if you have positionals, as said before.



Job are easier or harder depending on how hard it is to optimize your rotation to the boss, not how hard it is to keep your rotation going, hence why physical ranged are almost always considered easier than hard casters or melees. Every monkey with half a brain can have a perfect rotation on a dummy, given he has the adequate inputs, and inputs do not discriminate better players, they discriminate against people that have disabilites.

What makes a good player isn't their ability to do their rotation, but to adjust to every fight, do mechanics perfectly, and keep uptime. Rotations are the fun part, not the hard part. But, by having bloating issues, you discriminate some players from being able to do their rotation effectively, and thus, from playing at a good level.

Some pages ago, someone said that you could macro different hotbars to have the same input do different skills, but that is not really an option as well, since it's basically like adding an oGCD in your rotation every time you need to swap hotbars, so it makes life harder for those that can't do the same number of input that you do.

All in all, the best way to ensure people with disabilities can play like the rest of us is to give that option to players.

Do you have experience with playing with a disability or are you just talking for someone else? Like I said, the option thing is an irrelevant point, options have to be designed around. I dont know how positionals have anything to do with this topic.

Knowing the rotation and being able to execute it are two different things. No small part of that latter depends on how well you know the fight. But that just means the better you are at mechanics the better you become at your rotation and the better you are with your rotation the better you become at mechanics. You can not seperate them. A good player is able to execute their rotation while resolving mechanics.

There is an insanely good player who plays with only one hand (and I think 2 fingers missing on that hand aswell) who has cleared like everything afaik. That guy is a lot better than most people without any disabilities so I'm not convinced that combo collapsing is honestly a disability thing.

[LittleImp]

One button spam is deeply unpopular in the places it already exists in-game. It's one of the most criticized aspects of Healer gameplay, BRD gameplay, and certain solo duties. If anything, I'd like to see them further expand on combos and add more branching combo options to some jobs. On PLD, there are a lot of fight specific combo chains and otherwise interesting ways you can manipulate their rotation due to the way their combos interact.

There is an insanely good player who plays with only one hand (and I think 2 fingers missing on that hand aswell) who has cleared like everything afaik. That guy is a lot better than most people without any disabilities so I'm not convinced that combo collapsing is honestly a disability thing.

There was also a disabled MCH player who used to play the game on controller using his feet, and was able to do his rotation perfectly. This was back when MCH had rng combos.

Rin Karigani recently broke his elbow, and was able to hit 99 percentiles with one hand after a week or so of practice, despite having years of ingrained muscle memory around using both hands.

In my case I actually struggle to play Healers because after awhile the repetition of pressing one button actually causes a lot of pain in my hand.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Like I said, the option thing is an irrelevant point, options have to be designed around.

No, because they are options. I... just don't know how to say it any other way.

I dont know how positionals have anything to do with this topic.

If you have positionals, you can't 1-1-1 mindlessly, so it doesn't make things easier except on the hands.

There is an insanely good player who plays with only one hand (and I think 2 fingers missing on that hand aswell) who has cleared like everything afaik. That guy is a lot better than most people without any disabilities so I'm not convinced that combo collapsing is honestly a disability thing.

There was also a disabled MCH player who used to play the game on controller using his feet, and was able to do his rotation perfectly. This was back when MCH had rng combos.

Rin Karigani recently broke his elbow, and was able to hit 99 percentiles with one hand after a week or so of practice, despite having years of ingrained muscle memory around using both hands.

Sure, disabled people just don't try hard enough.

You should be shameful of saying that sort of things. I'm glad some people can play well with disabilites, but you both are just elitists that use some examples as an excuse to speak shit, and I don't even want to argue with you anymore, you're just despicable.

[Saraide]

No, because they are options. I... just don't know how to say it any other way.



If you have positionals, you can't 1-1-1 mindlessly, so it doesn't make things easier except on the hands.





Sure, disabled people just don't try hard enough.

You should be shameful of saying that sort of things. I'm glad some people can play well with disabilites, but you both are just elitists that use some examples as an excuse to speak shit, and I don't even want to argue with you anymore, you're just despicable.

Are you speaking from experience with disabilities? This isnt the first time this discussion is happening and I always get the impression a lot of people are just trying to speak for people with disabilities without knowing or even caring about the people they are allegedally standing up for.

Every option devs build into the game has to be designed around, that's just how it is. You cant give an option and then pretend it doesnt exist. There are mods that already allow the combo collapsing and iirc it's one of the most downloaded plugins. Do you want to tell me everyone of those people is facing disabilities? Or do they just want to have an easier time with their rotation and their hotbar setup.

yeah, positionals, where to squeeze in an oGCD would still make you pay attention.
But it does get easier. From the ease of pushing 123 to the ease of pushing 111

I'm not saying you wouldnt have to pay attention at all anymore, I'm saying you are automating away the attention you needed to spend on your basic combo. When you have entire burst window happening and at the same time a complicated mechanic to resolve, going back to your regular combo just takes a bit of attention that you just wouldnt need anymore.
Why are you trying to distract with positionals and oGCDs?

[LittleImp]

Sure, disabled people just don't try hard enough.

You should be shameful of saying that sort of things. I'm glad some people can play well with disabilites, but you both are just elitists that use some examples as an excuse to speak shit, and I don't even want to argue with you anymore, you're just despicable.

It's pretty sad that you would try to imply someone else is toxic while choosing to speak like this to someone you disagree with about a feature in a video game of all things. You really need to work on controlling your emotions, and the way you express yourself.

but you both are just elitists that use some examples as an excuse to speak shit

Like honestly, what on earth is this? Do you think 'Elitists' go around preying on disabled people for fun? I grew up with a severely disabled family member. I've taught raids to folks with both physical and mental disabilities, and even sat down and helped them optimize their hot-bars, relegate certain functions to third-party macros, and recommended peripherals that can improve their experience. The types of inputs people struggle with tend to vary a lot based on the nature of their disability; Just as there are people who struggle to press a wide array of inputs, there are also people who have issues with repetitious motion and pressing the same button many times.

The ideal solution would indeed be an opt-in system, but many are rightfully concerned about Square Enix's approach to implementing something like that. It is highly likely that it wouldn't be optional given precedent, which would simply create a different but still problemed situation. Even if such a feature were added, if they don't specifically recognize the accessibility issue, they'll simply continue to add more buttons in the place of those that they eliminate. I'll fully throw in my support for an optional system, I just don't think it's likely to happen in a form that will please everyone.

Between third party macro software, FF14 specific mods and the range of peripherals available, PC players have a definite advantage in regards to accessibility. If anyone is running into accessibility issues and needs a solution sooner rather than later, the non-steam PC version of FF14 will be your best bet, finances permitting.