Job action combos one button

[GrimGale]

One of the things that it's talked about with regards to adding more skills to Healer Dps kits is the addition of 1-2-3 combos.

And it's not a well recieved idea, for the same reason consolidated unbranching 1-2-3 combos wouldn't really change how DPS classes are played. You just still hit one key after the other. In terms of game mechanics there is absolutely no change. In terms of manual output of commands it takes a smidgeon of effort from the part of the player to keep track of which part of the combo they are in, but other-wise there isn't any meaningfull decision making or strategy in it.

That's why most healers reject the 1-2-3 combo idea as a way to make their DPS kits more interesting. It's because it ultimately changes nothing, being consolidated or otherwise.

[24spencer]

We had a good balance of healer DPS kits in Stormblood. SCH and WHM had a nuke, an instant dot and a casted dot. The two dots had different durations so this created a more interesting dynamic where you were making sure you could keep both your dots running.

For WHM, if memory serves, the casted dot was 24s and the instant was 18s, so you were actually doing things other than nuke spamming for 30s solid. The casted dot and old 2.5s cast times also meant you didn't have literally infinite weave windows and you actually had to think meaningfully about movement.

We didn't need 1-2-3 combos for fun healer DPS and we weren't neutered to 1 nuke with an instant dot every 30s. Astro was fine, because their card management was significantly more involved and requires augmenting cards, storing them for later, or redrawing them.

Anyway, all of this is gone, and the people the change was catered to didn't even care, because they were never going to DPS as a healer. All the healers are now a shell of their former selves and the other jobs are just hoping they get to survive till 8.0 before it's their turn.

What a waste.

[Fourbestintoner]

Play the jobs they like until they begin to ruin them by catering to people who shouldn't be even playing them, I will NEVER touch scholar and dark knight again.
Cleared week 1 btw.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Play the jobs they like until they begin to ruin them by catering to people who shouldn't be even playing them, I will NEVER touch scholar and dark knight again.
Cleared week 1 btw.

Glad to hear. If that is real, and we'll never know if it is.

You're still a tryhard that thinks having more buttons = being harder to play, and that's self-explanatory about what you know about quality class design.

[Fourbestintoner]

more buttons = being harder to play

Yes, that's exactly right

[Jijifli]

Glad to hear. If that is real, and we'll never know if it is.

You're still a tryhard that thinks having more buttons = being harder to play, and that's self-explanatory about what you know about quality class design.

Just, a couple of factors I want to mention. The first, being regardless of difficulty stance, it is at minimum more engaging than the exact same single key press. BRD is so painfully boring to me, and I constantly just go so in habit of 1 that I miss my procs because of it. Yet, on DNC where it's literally LITERALLY just 2, I have no issue at all. It's strange how just a single extra key press fixes an entire problem for me.

And, as a second note, if you state there's absolutely no difference between different presses and same presses, then what's the problem? Shouldn't have any issues with the system as is, no? So then, why argue for something that doesn't actually change anything, no? Unless it does.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

And, as a second note, if you state there's absolutely no difference between different presses and same presses, then what's the problem? Shouldn't have any issues with the system as is, no? So then, why argue for something that doesn't actually change anything, no? Unless it does.

Never said it's the same, tho, I said it doesn't make the classes less interesting or less complex to play, but do make it easier on the hands.

I could go all the way to make an "you're an ableist" argument about people with arthrosis or whatever, but I don't want to even go there, just... why are you all so masochistic that you actually want to make your life harder for the exact same result ? Don't pretend 1-2-3 combos are fun, so 1-1-1 combos surely won't be much less fun. The fun is in other parts of the gameplay, and again, the fact you can't see that says a lot about you.

Precisely, it says you're all jerking at your own reflection for being able to do 1-2-3, deny the actual button bloating on some classes, ask people to buy more complex controllers with more easily accessible buttons, while they might just not have the money for it, and so on. For the sake of the "fun" of something that's been a bore for 8 years. I just don't understand y'all, tbh, it's not even about tryhards anymore, you're just... weird.

Touch some grass, really.

[Jijifli]

Never said it's the same, tho, I said it doesn't make the classes less interesting or less complex to play, but do make it easier on the hands.

I could go all the way to make an "you're an ableist" argument about people with arthrosis or whatever, but I don't want to even go there, just... why are you all so masochistic that you actually want to make your life harder for the exact same result ? Don't pretend 1-2-3 combos are fun, so 1-1-1 combos surely won't be much less fun. The fun is in other parts of the gameplay, and again, the fact you can't see that says a lot about you.

I don't make my life harder for the exact same result. I've mentioned already even, in that very post you're quoting, that reducing the class design to just 1 button already makes my brain incapable of handling other systems, as it gets bored out of its mind. We're right that moving to 2 or 3 doesn't take really much, but that's the thing, it's still a thought. It keeps my brain with even the most minor of activity to do, rather than just try to make it scream DID IT PROC DID IT PROC????? over and over. BRD is my example, as the 1 button job in the game, I almost never get proper use of ref arrow procs, yet even just having a second button (like dnc) I suddenly notice the procs instantly. Minor thought goes a long way.

So, to tl;dr that, I'm not making it harder. For me, I'm actually making it easier.

Precisely, it says you're all jerking at your own reflection for being able to do 1-2-3, deny the actual button bloating on some classes, ask people to buy more complex controllers with more easily accessible buttons, while they might just not have the money for it, and so on. For the sake of the "fun" of something that's been a bore for 8 years. I just don't understand y'all, tbh, it's not even about tryhards anymore, you're just... weird.

A basic controller works just fine. I don't seem to recall any controller player I know of (including real life players) who seem to need some special controller for the game. Far as I'm aware, Yoshida himself even plays with a basic controller, to ensure it's never broken, because he'll notice. As for bloat, reducing combo's doesn't reduce bloat. Removing abilities that are literally unused, like Fluid Aura, do that. Then again, I'm replying to someone who thinks I'm 'jerking off' because of how shortening the combo's completely kill what little engagement I can even find in some classes.

Touch some grass, really.

I'd love to, but there's still snow here. But if you could try producing an actually on fire insult instead of the One in the "Internet insults for dummies" guide, it might melt a little faster and let me.

[LittleImp]

I played PLD during week 1 clears this tier, and constantly had hardcore players openly criticizing my job choice in the final fight. If you spend time in hardcore communities, you will pretty frequently see top rank players equating playing certain jobs to griefing.

This meme was probably made by some weird casual player fantasizing about having something in common with hardcore players.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I played PLD during week 1 clears this tier, and constantly had hardcore players openly criticizing my job choice in the final fight. If you spend time in hardcore communities, you will pretty frequently see top rank players equating playing certain jobs to griefing.

This meme was probably made by some weird casual player fantasizing about having something in common with hardcore players.

If you think you need to min max classes to kill week 1, you're just not good enough.

Being commited defines midcore, being good defines hardcore.

This was made by a multiple 100% parse NIN for two expansions that plays in a static that cleared P4S with a DNC and a SMN week 1, not by me. I'm just a casual that dwells around his hardcore gf, because I don't want to commit to PvE, but nah, you just mistake midcore tryhards for hardcore.

And the reason they don't care about classes is because the content is too easy right now to have to discriminate against some classes as long as you've got some top tier included. If a monk blames your choice to play PLD for the lack of DPS, he's just not good enough, and if you can't see that, you're just delusional. If you want to world first, or even do ultimate, sure, min max. But min maxing savage hard enough to exclude some jobs is the proof you're not a good enough player.

(Also, "you" defines the tryhards I'm speaking about, not you, Little Imp, I don't think you're bad or delusional, but certainly you know that this is stupid, since you play PLD in a meta that's against it)