Job action combos one button

[Amon-ster]

Why stop there, we should have one button, period.

You get to some monsters and you push your button, it would do your entire rotation, including buffs and continue to do it until all monsters are dead, it would select single target or AoE for you, if you are a tank, it would use cooldowns, for healers, it could oGCD heal for you too!

Just think of how it would solve all the problems we have. Ice Mage? Solved! Freecure fisher? Not anymore! Tank not using cooldowns for tank busters? Fixed that too! DPS only using single target rotation for 757 monsters? Impossible!

This would be the best change ever implemented to the game!

If they did this, and added in for our characters to actually do mechanics for us, everyone could clear Savage and Ultimate too! Look at that engagement rate, it would be 100%

Yeah when are they gonna add the button that lets me just win.

[hagare]

Why stop there, we should have one button, period.

You get to some monsters and you push your button, it would do your entire rotation, including buffs and continue to do it until all monsters are dead, it would select single target or AoE for you, if you are a tank, it would use cooldowns, for healers, it could oGCD heal for you too!

Just think of how it would solve all the problems we have. Ice Mage? Solved! Freecure fisher? Not anymore! Tank not using cooldowns for tank busters? Fixed that too! DPS only using single target rotation for 757 monsters? Impossible!

This would be the best change ever implemented to the game!

If they did this, and added in for our characters to actually do mechanics for us, everyone could clear Savage and Ultimate too! Look at that engagement rate, it would be 100%

you never pvp do you
or hey, remember playing as Thancred where his combo gets consolidated?

[Istaru]

you never pvp do you
or hey, remember playing as Thancred where his combo gets consolidated?

I do and I do.

If it helps at all, just add a /s to my post.

While there is no real skill required to memorize and repeat a series of button presses, if you are going to slim down the combat to pressing 1 button over and over for your GCD actions, why not go all the way? As for the rest of the post, I was taking the **** on the entire idea.

I truly hate this idea, I despise that it was ever added to PVP and we will see these posts nonstop until the end of time or they give in and do it. At which point, the requests will change to now be requests to add more things into it until we have the famed JP button from FFXI.

That was the point of my post, that these requests are ridiculous.

[Shurrikhan]

I do and I do.

If it helps at all, just add a /s to my post.

While there is no real skill required to memorize and repeat a series of button presses, if you are going to slim down the combat to pressing 1 button over and over for your GCD actions, why not go all the way?

It's still an extension far into the absurd.

The effects are nowhere close; optionally unbloating some 6 to 14% of one's buttons does not reduce one's play to a single button. The intentions are nowhere close; consolidating skills that are already mutually exclusive in practice has no interest in making the game "auto-win".

[hagare]

I do and I do.

If it helps at all, just add a /s to my post.

While there is no real skill required to memorize and repeat a series of button presses, if you are going to slim down the combat to pressing 1 button over and over for your GCD actions, why not go all the way? As for the rest of the post, I was taking the **** on the entire idea.

I truly hate this idea, I despise that it was ever added to PVP and we will see these posts nonstop until the end of time or they give in and do it. At which point, the requests will change to now be requests to add more things into it until we have the famed JP button from FFXI.

That was the point of my post, that these requests are ridiculous.

so instead of one combo set you prefer a meaningless 123 combo.
There are other buttons you know.
Why not all the way? Because not everything is meaninglessly bloated.
People aren't asking this so the gameplay becomes easier. Hell, the APM is the same.
the only change is which button you press. Instead of 123, it's now just 111. With the proper oGCD in between.
If you used to press 1>C1>2>C2>3>C3, it's now 1>C1>1>C2>1>C3. Same six actions.
And you know this.
You admitted that it's meaningless and takes no real skill just having 3 buttons for 3 actions with artificial differences.
So rather than an /s on your post, a /disingenuous would be more appropriate.

[Saraide]

so instead of one combo set you prefer a meaningless 123 combo.
There are other buttons you know.
Why not all the way? Because not everything is meaninglessly bloated.
People aren't asking this so the gameplay becomes easier. Hell, the APM is the same.
the only change is which button you press. Instead of 123, it's now just 111. With the proper oGCD in between.
If you used to press 1>C1>2>C2>3>C3, it's now 1>C1>1>C2>1>C3. Same six actions.
And you know this.
You admitted that it's meaningless and takes no real skill just having 3 buttons for 3 actions with artificial differences.
So rather than an /s on your post, a /disingenuous would be more appropriate.

It does make the job easier though, the attention you need for where you are in your combo is suddenly freed up entirely.

(snip)

Calling it an option is pretty irrelevant, it's inherently linked to job balance and fight difficulty. Options have to be designed around. Breaking combo is an attention thing, if it's a matter of dexterity I'd wager the real problem is proper hotbar setup.

I can see your point with combo steps that are completely unavailable outside the specific time you are supposed to press them. That's why I wasnt against the cartridge combo collapse on gunbreaker. I wouldnt apply that logic to all combos in the game however.

This game's pve combat system is designed around keeping your rotation going, that's where job difficulty comes from. So every part of the rotation that gets automated away makes the job and therefore the game easier. PvP on the other hand focuses more on correct prioritization of enemies and objectives. The role play duties on the other hand have intentionally extremely dumbed down versions of jobs because they cant assume that you know what any of the regular job actions do. Which makes the pure combat roleplay duties a bit dull from a gameplay standpoint and makes the this is thancred duty shine more because it takes a different approach.

[Shurrikhan]

Why stop there, we should have one button, period.

If they did this, and added in for our characters to actually do mechanics for us, everyone could clear Savage and Ultimate too! Look at that engagement rate, it would be 100%

Right... because consolidating 2 to 7 buttons that already could not be used in any other order, out of up to 29 essential buttons currently present in said kits, suddenly locks you into optimized, autonomous WASD movement and lets one's job play itself...

[Saraide]

Two things:

I think there are better ways to adress the button bloat that does exist on some jobs as it doesnt even affect a lot of jobs, stuff like undraw.

Remembering where you are in your combo takes a bit of attention that collapsing all combos into one button would automate away. Sure, no one is gonna miss a combo action when attacking a target dummy. But when something like firestorms together with your burst window is going on things might look a bit different. And keep in mind jobs balance is done for the harder content in the game. If you drift like a madman on a dungeon boss, why do you even care.

I do find it weird that some people act like collapsing combos is such a huge deal in terms of reducing button bloat but at the same time act like it's no big deal at all whenever they face pushback against the idea.

[Shurrikhan]

I do find it weird that some people act like collapsing combos is such a huge deal in terms of reducing button bloat but at the same time act like it's no big deal at all whenever they face pushback against the idea.

As an option, it would be a pretty big deal for certain jobs.

Consider DRG, for instance. There's just 1 button to save via other means, Mirage Dive hotswapping onto (High) Jump, but up to 7 to save by offering simply a Chaos Thrust, Full Thrust, and Coerthan Tempest combo. SAM sees a fair bit from both ends, 3 buttons saved from combo consolidation and a button each saved from consolidation on Ikishoten and Tsubame Gaeshi, and perhaps one further if --per other, alternate requests-- Senei were made a traited, conditional variation of Guren (for when only one enemy is found within its AoE check). On the other hand, other jobs, like Monk, only have those other forms of consolidation anyways, such as the Masterful Blitz hotswapping over Perfect Balance.

I think for many, though, it's more a matter of principle: the only difference between (A) skills that literally cannot be used except in order or on available proc, and can therefore just be key-slid* over to the same effect as button consolidation anyways, and (B) true combos is simply possibility for hitting the wrong key, which quickly becomes insignificant except for those with significant lost physical dexterity and the like, an odd choice for skill-gap.

*Key sliding is when the sliding of one's finger across a set of keys, from highest to lowest priority, such that the first possible action is used. For instance, with the old Gnashing Fang combo, one could just slide from Shift-3 (Wicked Talon) to Shift-1 (Gnashing Fang) to guarantee that you'd hit the next skill in series, and even now one can do the same for Wheeling Thrust and Fang and Claw and Refulgent Arrow and Burst Shot. There's no more actual need to hit the "right" key than with consolidation.

In other words, despite the set of actions ("true combos") being equally mutually exclusive and unable to be reordered in practice, they are somehow protected as a category of their own, which can seem rather... odd. They have none of the affordances (reordering for optimization) than Monk combos have, yet take up just as many buttons.

Consider: Monk and DRG each have 11 GCD skills, yet while Monk has 11 GCD choices, and 3-9 rotational choices in a given GCD, DRG has only 4 GCD choices, and only 1 to 2 rotational choices in a given GCD. Combo consolation (the likes of Gnashing Fang) or combo freeing (the likes of Monk) would simply put their choices-per-button-spent on par, one way or the other.

Additionally, there is a difference between arguing that (A) yes, such an option would provide significant unbloating for the most affected jobs, and (B) no, the mere fact that buttons are saved for those who use the option would not necessitate that the job kits suddenly get more tools to fill those spaces. It's not a contradiction; they address two separate questions: Can combo consolidation provide significant savings? Yes. Would this actually be an option? Yes; there's no reason to think the devs would suddenly feel pressured to fill the saved button space or thereby disadvantage players who chose not to consolidate their combos (who have lower button efficiency but retain their tactile cues and likely chose not to consolidate specifically because those cues were more valuable to them than that efficiency).

[Deveryn]

Let's not forget people play on controller too.

Collapsing buttons isn't so much about ease as it is basic Quality of Life. The GNB continuation change was much needed as it was a terribly cumbersome combo to execute. If any further changes come down the road, they'll likely be similar to this.