Job action combos one button

[CaptainLagbeard]

There have been many discussions about this in the past...

Personally I would think it would be a good thing to do to clean up a few action bar slots... But certain classes couldn't get it done. Monk and Samurai being the most prominent examples because of Perfect Balance and Meikyo Shisui respectively.

There are some other squashing that could be done to save space on some classes other than the combos as well.
PLD, Confiteor needing Requiescat to use, it could easily change into Confiteor upon being used and when it gives the buff... Maybe add a slight internal cooldown between the two to avoid Confiteor going off too early.
WAR, Primal Rend needs Inner Release to use. Simple.
DRG, Mirage Dive can only be used after using (High)Jump.
BRD, Shadowbite is only usable after a proc from Quick Nock/Ladonsbite, Pitch Perfect only usable during Wanderer's Minuet.
MCH, Rook/Queen Overdrive is only usable while the Rook or Queen is active. Heat Blast is only usable during Hypercharge.

[Shirala]

Since I'm old and disabled, I use macros to get around the mass quantities of buttons to push already. I know that it is not optimal due to the delay, but it is the only way that I can play this game. I've been playing MMOs since 1995 with The Realm, so I'm not new to the genre.

I'd love it if it was more streamlined.

[Wyakin]

Let's not forget people play on controller too.

Collapsing buttons isn't so much about ease as it is basic Quality of Life. The GNB continuation change was much needed as it was a terribly cumbersome combo to execute. If any further changes come down the road, they'll likely be similar to this.

Do not put all controller players in the same boat. If you cannot fit all the buttons for a class onto your hotbars then you’re doing it wrong. Remove some of the stupid buttons like emotes and minions or mounts you simply don’t need and you’ll find you actually have more than enough space.

Threads like this one have been brought up numerous times and I hope SE continues to ignore every one of them.

[Shurrikhan]

Why are you bringing up oGCDs and positionals in the first place is my question.

Presumably because if one thinks of only GCDs, then the number of GCD buttons reduced would seem to have a large impact on depth, rather than merely QoL.

But, step-by-step changes in GCD buttons has never been all there is to buttonflow, nor to what requires one to keep track of what GCD they are on. Even minimizing movement to the smallest possible single-press bursts thereof, a DRG, SAM, etc., will still have to move per average combo while oGCDs, including GCD-synergetic ones like Life Surge, have always been pretty prevalent.

It's kind of like if someone looks at a change in gas price increase and calling it an equal change in the cost of driving, while ignoring all other periodic costs which have not increased to nearly the extent of said gas. When the price per gallon is all that's being discussed, things will quickly seem that way, but it's only a part of the whole -- even if a large part, and perhaps the largest for some.

If you make the claim that consolidating combo keys would "automat[e] away the attention you needed to spend" on following one's combo, it is perfectly valid to point out that, no, resource management (not overcapping), positioning for the next step in your combo, synergetic abilities, and the like all still require you to pay attention to your combo progress.

The only part really affected is the nodding off, or getting a lag spike or especially clipped animation while distracted, and forgetting what step you did most recently, and only to the degree that you can still screw up surrounding timings or your positioning but now cannot accidentally reset your whole combo.

That said, I'm also not certain that stacked keys are a boon in doing one's full burst; I imagine that'd be rather player-dependent. It's been pretty net-neutral for me, as each unique GCD button hit was a tactile reminder of where to go / what to hit next. I can do without, but I wouldn't say it's easier; probably the opposite, very faintly. That's why I don't think everyone would go for that option (combo consolidation), even if they took the time to try to adjust to it.

[Saraide]

Presumably because if one thinks of only GCDs, then the number of GCD buttons reduced would seem to have a large impact on depth, rather than merely QoL.

But, step-by-step changes in GCD buttons has never been all there is to buttonflow, nor to what requires one to keep track of what GCD they are on. Even minimizing movement to the smallest possible single-press bursts thereof, a DRG, SAM, etc., will still have to move per average combo while oGCDs, including GCD-synergetic ones like Life Surge, have always been pretty prevalent.

It's kind of like is someone looks at a change in gas price increase and calling it an equal change in the cost of driving, while ignoring all other periodic costs which have not increased to nearly the extent of said gas. When the price per gallon is all that's being discussed, things will quickly seem that way, but it's only a part of the whole -- even a large part, and the largest for some.

If you make the claim that consolidating combo keys "automating away the attention you needed to spend" on following one's combo, it is perfectly valid to point out that, no, resource management (not overcapping), positioning for the next step in your combo, synergetic abilities, and the like all still require you to pay attention to your combo progress.

The only part really affected is the nodding off, or getting a lag spike or especially clipped animation while distracted, and forgetting what step you did most recently, and only to the degree that you can still screw up surrounding timings or your positioning but now cannot accidentally reset your whole combo.

That said, I'm also not certain that stacked keys are a boon in doing one's full burst; I imagine that'd be rather player-dependent. It's been pretty net-neutral for me, as each unique GCD button hit was a tactile reminder of where to go / what to hit next. I can do without, but I wouldn't say it's easier; probably the opposite, very faintly. That's why I don't think everyone would go for that option (combo consolidation), even if they took the time to try to adjust to it.

Where did I claim it automates the entire rotation? Genuinly curious if I just straight up cant type anymore. oGCDs require attention, positionals require attention and combo steps require attention and dropping combo is often times much more punishing than missing positionals or drifting oGCDs.
Not a lot of GCDs even have positionals at this point and only on SAM do they actually matter for resources. None of the tanks have positionals at all.
Resource management has you pay attention to your resources mostly not really your combo steps.

[Mikey_R]

I believe I was one of the first to mention positionals, reason being, you can keep track of when you need positionals by knowing where you are in the combo just from what separate buttons you have been pressing. You know what your next GCD is once you press hotkey 'A' and that it needs Y positional, so you can plan. By consolidating buttons, you lose that way of tracking where you are in your combo.

Now, I never used it as an excuse as to have button consolidation in or not (in fact, IIRC, I mentioned having it in as an option) it was just something to consider as to why button consolidation is not always better and it is more of a case by case basis based on the player.

[Shurrikhan]

I believe I was one of the first to mention positionals, reason being, you can keep track of when you need positionals by knowing where you are in the combo just from what separate buttons you have been pressing. You know what your next GCD is once you press hotkey 'A' and that it needs Y positional, so you can plan. By consolidating buttons, you lose that way of tracking where you are in your combo.

Now, I never used it as an excuse as to have button consolidation in or not (in fact, IIRC, I mentioned having it in as an option) it was just something to consider as to why button consolidation is not always better and it is more of a case by case basis based on the player.

Sure, but let's put that in its fuller context.

Things that tell you where to be:

• The icon of the skill you last hit.
• The flashing icon of your combo skill currently available to be hit.
• The animation of the skill you last hit.
• The SFX of the skill you last hit.
• Your coinciding (de)buff timings.
• Your coinciding CDs, when rotation is consistent.
• Time (i.e., in GCDs) since last action X.
• The button you last pressed.*
• The button your about to press.
• Etc.

While you might appear to lose 2 of those 8+ surrounding means of tracking, it's actually only 1; even when consolidated, the "previous GCD's button-press" --during which point most players begin positioning for next GCD anyways, rather than noticing where to go only once in the gap between GCDs-- still provides tactile cues for any positionals in the following GCD. Let me explain.

Consider any ST combo. We can start, for instance, with Samurai and go one from there.

Its consolidated combos would be Yukikaze, Gekko, and Kasha, but note that they all share the same 1st step. As such, the points at which those combos diverge already cue one into any upcoming positional. Going from any of three keys for the first GCD to --in effect-- Yukikaze, pre-Kasha, or pre-Gekko, one still has the prior button press to tell them where to be.

The same applies to DRG, which splits at Disembowel and Vorpal. Taking one's first choice one way or the other already sets one up for either Any-Flank-Rear (via Vorpal) or Rear-Rear-Flank (via Disembowel).

Ninja, alone, is the outlier to this, and largely due just to the removal of 2nd-GCD Shadowfang (turned into Sonic Break-lite in 6.1 and then removed in EW), and only in the sense that one can decide which path to take later. For those who want those tactile cues, though, hitting the uniquely pre-Aeolian key (Gust Blade before Aeolian, within the consolidated Aeolian combo) or pre-Armor Crush key (Gust Blade before AC, within the consolidated AC combo) actually provides a less ambiguous tactile cue than the separate Gust Blade.

To put it another way, even if you could only track your combo progress based on which button you just pressed, consolidated combos would still offer as much or more cues as to where you next need to be. Even if you move from button B only ever after button A (which would require particular jobs, pre-consolidation), making B a unique cue, and you move to button B only because you just hit A (rather than because you're tracking your progress), consolidation still provides those cues.

tl;dr: There are further tactile cues that come with unconsolidated combos, no doubt, but because of at what steps those positionals are located and how those consolidated combos work, there's virtually zero advantage to positioning from having unconsolidated combos.

For my part, even if/when playing drunk as all hell, consolidated or otherwise, I track where I need to be next the GCD the moment from hearing the previous GCD (Gust Blade, Disembowel, Vorpal, Jinpu, Shifu, etc.) and via the gauges and/or status effects. Consolidation has zero impact on my ability to position immediately, accurately, and reliably.

[Kolsykol]

The reason why Thancred and Hien are like that tho is because they're meant to be easy for people that have never played GNB or SAM before ( and also so EVERYONE can clear the content ).

If anything I wish they added more skills to them and made them more like the real Jobs on Normal and made them what they are right now on Easy.

[Ransu]

I have no problems with their current approach recently of simply upgrading skills to new animations and potency increases. I'd rather that approach to maintaining things over cutting my input list in half because people can't bother to learn how to keyboard and want to lazily press 1 key.

[LeonKeyh]

I hate the idea of single button combos.

BUT what I think could be done and would be fairly helpful to kill (some) button bloat on jobs would be an AoE stance.

Instead of separate abilities that you press for AoE fights, it would be a stance that you throw on and you just do your "normal" rotation which now has slightly lower potency and cleaves. Cleaves would be added to some OGCD attacks too (every expansion, more and more single target OGCDs are getting shared timer AE equivalents, so most will have this). The idea would be to get rid of the emaciated AE rotations that most jobs have and make it so that the game reinforces the job's rotation more (rather than dungeon runs being about 9 minutes of your actual single target rotation and more time doing "boring" AE rotations.