Job action combos one button

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Play the jobs they like until they begin to ruin them by catering to people who shouldn't be even playing them, I will NEVER touch scholar and dark knight again.
Cleared week 1 btw.

Glad to hear. If that is real, and we'll never know if it is.

You're still a tryhard that thinks having more buttons = being harder to play, and that's self-explanatory about what you know about quality class design.

[Fourbestintoner]

more buttons = being harder to play

Yes, that's exactly right

[Jijifli]

Glad to hear. If that is real, and we'll never know if it is.

You're still a tryhard that thinks having more buttons = being harder to play, and that's self-explanatory about what you know about quality class design.

Just, a couple of factors I want to mention. The first, being regardless of difficulty stance, it is at minimum more engaging than the exact same single key press. BRD is so painfully boring to me, and I constantly just go so in habit of 1 that I miss my procs because of it. Yet, on DNC where it's literally LITERALLY just 2, I have no issue at all. It's strange how just a single extra key press fixes an entire problem for me.

And, as a second note, if you state there's absolutely no difference between different presses and same presses, then what's the problem? Shouldn't have any issues with the system as is, no? So then, why argue for something that doesn't actually change anything, no? Unless it does.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

And, as a second note, if you state there's absolutely no difference between different presses and same presses, then what's the problem? Shouldn't have any issues with the system as is, no? So then, why argue for something that doesn't actually change anything, no? Unless it does.

Never said it's the same, tho, I said it doesn't make the classes less interesting or less complex to play, but do make it easier on the hands.

I could go all the way to make an "you're an ableist" argument about people with arthrosis or whatever, but I don't want to even go there, just... why are you all so masochistic that you actually want to make your life harder for the exact same result ? Don't pretend 1-2-3 combos are fun, so 1-1-1 combos surely won't be much less fun. The fun is in other parts of the gameplay, and again, the fact you can't see that says a lot about you.

Precisely, it says you're all jerking at your own reflection for being able to do 1-2-3, deny the actual button bloating on some classes, ask people to buy more complex controllers with more easily accessible buttons, while they might just not have the money for it, and so on. For the sake of the "fun" of something that's been a bore for 8 years. I just don't understand y'all, tbh, it's not even about tryhards anymore, you're just... weird.

Touch some grass, really.

[Jijifli]

Never said it's the same, tho, I said it doesn't make the classes less interesting or less complex to play, but do make it easier on the hands.

I could go all the way to make an "you're an ableist" argument about people with arthrosis or whatever, but I don't want to even go there, just... why are you all so masochistic that you actually want to make your life harder for the exact same result ? Don't pretend 1-2-3 combos are fun, so 1-1-1 combos surely won't be much less fun. The fun is in other parts of the gameplay, and again, the fact you can't see that says a lot about you.

I don't make my life harder for the exact same result. I've mentioned already even, in that very post you're quoting, that reducing the class design to just 1 button already makes my brain incapable of handling other systems, as it gets bored out of its mind. We're right that moving to 2 or 3 doesn't take really much, but that's the thing, it's still a thought. It keeps my brain with even the most minor of activity to do, rather than just try to make it scream DID IT PROC DID IT PROC????? over and over. BRD is my example, as the 1 button job in the game, I almost never get proper use of ref arrow procs, yet even just having a second button (like dnc) I suddenly notice the procs instantly. Minor thought goes a long way.

So, to tl;dr that, I'm not making it harder. For me, I'm actually making it easier.

Precisely, it says you're all jerking at your own reflection for being able to do 1-2-3, deny the actual button bloating on some classes, ask people to buy more complex controllers with more easily accessible buttons, while they might just not have the money for it, and so on. For the sake of the "fun" of something that's been a bore for 8 years. I just don't understand y'all, tbh, it's not even about tryhards anymore, you're just... weird.

A basic controller works just fine. I don't seem to recall any controller player I know of (including real life players) who seem to need some special controller for the game. Far as I'm aware, Yoshida himself even plays with a basic controller, to ensure it's never broken, because he'll notice. As for bloat, reducing combo's doesn't reduce bloat. Removing abilities that are literally unused, like Fluid Aura, do that. Then again, I'm replying to someone who thinks I'm 'jerking off' because of how shortening the combo's completely kill what little engagement I can even find in some classes.

Touch some grass, really.

I'd love to, but there's still snow here. But if you could try producing an actually on fire insult instead of the One in the "Internet insults for dummies" guide, it might melt a little faster and let me.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I don't make my life harder for the exact same result. I've mentioned already even, in that very post you're quoting, that reducing the class design to just 1 button already makes my brain incapable of handling other systems, as it gets bored out of its mind. We're right that moving to 2 or 3 doesn't take really much, but that's the thing, it's still a thought. It keeps my brain with even the most minor of activity to do, rather than just try to make it scream DID IT PROC DID IT PROC????? over and over. BRD is my example, as the 1 button job in the game, I almost never get proper use of ref arrow procs, yet even just having a second button (like dnc) I suddenly notice the procs instantly. Minor thought goes a long way.

None of this makes sense to me. The fact you can't play bard is unrelated to the fact its filler is only one button, you just don't pay enough attention to procs, but you wouldn't pay more if you had 3 buttons to press instead. I... Don't know if you're seriously thinking that "having more things to think about makes it easier to think about even more things".

A basic controller works just fine. I don't seem to recall any controller player I know of (including real life players) who seem to need some special controller for the game. Far as I'm aware, Yoshida himself even plays with a basic controller, to ensure it's never broken, because he'll notice. As for bloat, reducing combo's doesn't reduce bloat. Removing abilities that are literally unused, like Fluid Aura, do that. Then again, I'm replying to someone who thinks I'm 'jerking off' because of how shortening the combo's completely kill what little engagement I can even find in some classes.

Sure, transforming three buttons into one doesn't reduce button bloat, better remove some skills that give some personality and possibilities to the job and that couldn't be condensated into one another to have more complexity and class identity. Surely you can't be serious.

I'd love to, but there's still snow here. But if you could try producing an actually on fire insult instead of the One in the "Internet insults for dummies" guide, it might melt a little faster and let me.

There is no snow, but your mind sure is frozen.

But by all means, stop answering to that pitiful buffoon that insults you while you can't make a proper argument that actually makes sense. Surely you can use that as an exit door for losing that argument.

[Shurrikhan]

None of this makes sense to me. The fact you can't play bard is unrelated to the fact its filler is only one button, you just don't pay enough attention to procs, but you wouldn't pay more if you had 3 buttons to press instead. I... Don't know if you're seriously thinking that "having more things to think about makes it easier to think about even more things".

No, that one can make sense. If your moment-to-moment decision-making is barren to the point of painful tedium, it can be that much harder to make ready for the infrequent, larger points of decision.

I don't see how a rigid combo (i.e., any that takes up more buttons than it has actual available decisions) would provide moment-to-moment decision making, but it can at the least help one keep track of what GCD one is one, especially so long as the pull and one's rotation is consistent. If X mechanic always happens on/with Y (GCD) button-press, such helps with subconscious tracking of the fight. I wouldn't force that bloat upon others or reduce actual available kit complexity for so little, but it's something.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

it can at the least help one keep track of what GCD one is one, especially so long as the pull and one's rotation is consistent. If X mechanic always happens on/with Y (GCD) button-press, such helps with subconscious tracking of the fight. I wouldn't force that bloat upon others or reduce actual available kit complexity for so little, but it's something.

I can picture that, explained that way, yes. But those muscle memory trackings are irrelevant to what Jijifli said about procs. For classes that are borderline random (DNC and BRD mostly), procs are too random to help with that, and the only thing that help is focus. And that focus is, I think, more disturbed the more buttons you have to press. Maybe it can help and that's just not how my mind works but anyway, nobody's asking to have mandatory concatenated combos, I'm just advocating for the option to, so... why would anyone cry against that ?

And as you say, it's a matter of available decisions, and therefore, MNK can't be concatenated since every skill theoretically allows a choice. But DRG, on the other hand, can have its 5 GCD combo (or 10, if we want to go that far) reduced from 7 buttons to 1, and that's a lot against bloating.

Healer's word: pressing 1-2-3 is much more fun than 1-1-1.

It is indeed difficult to explain, because there is nothing complicated about a 1-2-3 combo. But it still adds a variety that you don't realize until it's gone.

I've seen a few comments come through complaining about their current lack of a button. Are you sure you've optimized your bars and shortcuts properly? On most jobs, I still have a few empty slots.

I play healers for roulettes, and I can see where that's coming from, but I always felt like it came from the lack of oGCD damage spells. For example, if I had concatenated combos on my Reaper, I would still have my burst to keep me awake. Keeping an eye on my gauges, counting how many GCDs I need to do before doing other things, etc. Maybe you're right, and if I played reaper with concatenated combos, it would be a bore. But I'd still fight for the option to have it for people that want to use it.

As for button bloats, while I don't suffer personnally from this, tanks have pretty much three full bars of skills and CDs. Of course you can optimize to have more easily accessible buttons bound, but let's be honest, why would you refuse people that struggle with button bloat an option to have less bloating ?

[Jijifli]

None of this makes sense to me. The fact you can't play bard is unrelated to the fact its filler is only one button, you just don't pay enough attention to procs, but you wouldn't pay more if you had 3 buttons to press instead. I... Don't know if you're seriously thinking that "having more things to think about makes it easier to think about even more things".

If you have another explanation on how I have no issue with dealing with procs on any other job in the game, which also included HW DRG when the 4th combo button was a proc for either one or the other and it was rng on top of having to still land that proc's positional, while I can't manage it on BRD, I'd like to hear it. Really.

Sure, transforming three buttons into one doesn't reduce button bloat, better remove some skills that give some personality and possibilities to the job and that couldn't be condensated into one another to have more complexity and class identity. Surely you can't be serious.

The argument was "bloat bad" no? So suddenly you don't want to lose things? But we can ignore the fact that pushing them down into 1 button already breaks MNK without deleting what makes it unique, and takes away one of DRG's unique factors of having a longer combo line, since you won't even notice the thing if it's just a single key.

There is no snow, but your mind sure is frozen.

But by all means, stop answering to that pitiful buffoon that insults you while you can't make a proper argument that actually makes sense. Surely you can use that as an exit door for losing that argument.

See, that's a little closer. But, sadly, there is snow where I am. And I'm due for more tomorrow actually. I guess I'm sorry that I might live more northern than you and have more snow, but where I'm from, it's not unheard of for snow to last here until may.

But, I would like to know how my argument doesn't make sense. It's not like I've given every single job an honest try, and figured out where the things I'm good at are, and where I struggle. And BRD in paticular, you know, the job with a 1 button thing everyone wants, mysteriously has me struggling to catch its procs while any other job with more than one I'm fine with. Funny enough, healers suffer the same problem for me, I can't properly track my dot because it feels like I'm just pressing 1. And for whatever reason, WHM heavily suffers the most from it and I legit begin falling asleep when I play it, and I feel bad for any DF group that had to put up with me on WHM (Which wasn't a lot, since I trusted it knowing I'd just snooze)