Dark Knight Megathread

[Archwizard]

Also, as for the idea about a Black Magic Swordsman? I don't want to be frank, but I think that may be a bit of a stretch given how they can be on lore

Two possible responses to this, depending on your meaning.

Either you're fixated on the specific "Black Magic" (proper noun) part as in "the exact flavor of Void-derived Mhachi magic used by Black (and Red) Mages," in which case, I should clarify I didn't mean to second the job learning "Black Magic" (as that is more of a Rune Fencer/Mystic Knight's job). You are correct that DRK and BLM use fundamentally different sources of power. I was seconding the job using "black magic" (lowercase) as in "the classical term for any kind of dark art or witchcraft," things like sacrificial or drain-type magic effects, which already fall within DRK's repertoire in 14 and have appeared as part of its shtick on and off across the series.

Or, you're arguing against it being the "Magic Swordsman", where I should correct you that Yoshi-P fully intended for Dark Knight to be a "magic tank" which we can still see with magic-focused effects like Dark Mind/Missionary, its usage of MP and Spells like Unmend and (formerly) Abyssal Drain, and implicitly magical effects like The Blackest Night or Living Shadow. I believe this is what the poster I quoted was referring to.

[baklava151]

Yeah I think SE has kinda designed themselves into a hole at this point. There was a thread discussing this on the /r/ffxivdiscussion subreddit and this comment stood out to me:



Every Job is on that cycle now, and I think the only damage cooldown that isn't sitting at a 1 or 2 minute cooldown is Riddle of Wind over on MNK. Sustained DPS is dead, variable timers are dead, and raids are designed such that major mechanics happen right when burst is coming off cooldown, such as Intemperance, Limit Cut, P3S add phase, etc. I dunno, feels like they designed themselves into a corner, particularly in regards to Jobs.

Glad I'm not the only one feeling this way, it'd be a good discussion to bring up for more visibility (off-topic for this thread though). I also feel like that would require a massive overhaul on the devs' part which they might just want to avoid entirely.

[Claire_Pendragon]

(requiring some small adjustments)
If they changed the Darkside buff from a "timer", into an "MP drain" again, and used the Darkside job gauge as the MP gauge, it would already feel better to play. (with little markers to represent MP consumption)
(also, this of course has no effect on the wonkiness of the oGCDs atm)

[Shurrikhan]

Changing Darkside from a timer to an MP drain, by itself, would just reduce out of burst apm (likely no Edges outside of burst, while TBN itself becomes much more risky) while requiring a further button to toggle it on and off.

That seems like deliberately slowing DRK down just to introduce a button of very little in-practice decision-making (i.e., mostly bloat).

[Danelo]

Going back over the live letter notes and just saw the unofficial translation “its difficult to make big changes since there is an ultimate” in reference to job adjustments. Granted it unofficial but they are never horribly far off the mark if memory serves but what a let down. I wasn’t expecting a full rework but it seems like the DRK community is being let down to just see minor tweaks to living dead and nothing else. This is why they should be doing their due diligence by reading the forums and playing the job so they know the issues come time for the expansion. I can’t help but think in my head “tough cookies, get it done even if someone else neglected their job”. It’s not hating on the devs - I’m pulling from my real life experience. If they think it’s fine then with all the hate thrown DRKs way they need to come out and say why it’s good. Leaving it and going radio silent, as they have a habit of doing, isn’t good enough. If they don’t defend it with the community upset then they need to fix it now.

[Archwizard]

I wasn’t expecting a full rework but it seems like the DRK community is being let down to just see minor tweaks to living dead and nothing else.

Leaving it and going radio silent, as they have a habit of doing, isn’t good enough. If they don’t defend it with the community upset then they need to fix it now.

First off, we don't know what's happening to LD, "minor" or otherwise. Nor do we know that "nothing else" is changing for DRK.
This isn't hopium, they literally didn't go in depth on any of their changes yet and zipped past the "job changes" line in LL69 (per usual), so I have no idea where you're pulling this from.

Second, "radio silent"? This is always how they choose to operate: Part 1 of a Patch LL is general overview (but usually mentions the jobs they're focused on updating), Part 2 starts with a trailer and goes into specifics including job changes.
Yesterday's LL was fairly light, but that's because the one before it, which wasn't even for a Patch, already covered the jobs they're focusing on. We'll hear more in LL70, which will probably come towards the end of this month or start of April.

Official live translation, transcribed verbatim from LL68:

Question: Dark Knight's Living Dead and Blood Weapon are more difficult to use effectively compared to other tank skills. Are there plans to adjust this?

Answer: So not just Dark Knight, but a whole bunch of jobs will be adjusted in 6.1. We are looking closely at all of your feedback, and will fulfill as many of your requests as we possibly can in 6.1. We are definitely adjusting Living Dead, so you can wait and see how it goes.
We've also definitely seen your feedback about Machinist and White Mage that you're having trouble right at the moment, and we are working on that, so please wait just a little longer. We're also looking at Dragoons who are concerned about the Jump animation lock being too long. We're gonna try to shorten that up, so we're gonna adjust things that affect the feel of your gameplay in addition to just the numbers.
And of course I'd like to say that even if I didn't specifically mention your job today, we're still looking at feedback and making adjustments for those too, so please do not descend on us in a cloud of black smoke because I'm scared.

[Lyth]

Adjusting an invuln is a fairly significant undertaking from a balance perspective. I don't mind waiting for it even beyond 6.1, as long as it's actually on their radar.

I suspect that Blood Weapon is going to be merged into Delirium and that will end up incurring a stealth potency loss, with the MP gain being over 3 GCDs instead of 5. Given how they merged C+S with AD, I don't think that they'll pass up an opportunity to shrink down the number of oGCDs.

I do wish that they would do something about the 'magic only' defensive cooldowns. I think that's its only viable as a 'theme' if it provides the player with something exciting (i.e. if you could reflect back or absorb magical damage in some way, but that's unlikely to happen). Themes should confer benefits and not limitations. That was the critical mistake that they made with Living Dead as well.

[Danelo]

You must have missed the part where I said “but it seems”…

Didn’t think I needed to preface with a statement akin to the one that accompanies the media tour footage. Cool your jets.

It would seem, the point of Yoshi’s statement, if translated correctly, was to limit expectations - which is the point I was trying to make.

[Archwizard]

You must have missed the part where I said “but it seems”…

No I saw it, those words are just doing a lot of work with how much pessimism pervades the rest of your post.
Especially since you still haven't cited the "unofficial translation" you keep referring to. Translation of what? When and where?

I agree that we should temper our expectations. I have zero expectation we'll see a massive rework to the job on par with, say, what MNK received mid-Shadowbringers.
But I also know that there are some things that should have priority in any bump to DRK, and if they hit a few key points, we'll live. Living Dead is thankfully one of them, and with Blood Weapon in the same question, hopefully it's on their radar too.

Posted this shortlist in another thread:

• Living Dead needs a rework (not just number adjustments) to guarantee 10 sec of being unkillable and reduce strain on healers; we know updates to LD are coming, but the extent of its changes are still unknown
• Blood Weapon needs to be put on a stack system a la Delirium
• Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain need parity (healing on C&S, 3 target damage on AD), or to not share a CD
• Oblation and Dark Mind are underwhelming, borderline useless unless stacked
• Connected to the above, general W2W sustainability needs a boost on par with other tanks' 82/84 upgrades

[baklava151]

I agree with most of those for what's reasonable for them to accomplish in 6.1. Putting a heal on Carve and Spit makes sense if they want to keep it linked to AD but at the same time nobody's ever gonna hold it for the heal so it's kinda pointless. They could also unlink them and put AD on the GCD with an MP cost like other people suggested. It wouldn't bloat the DRK opener and it would help in dungeons.