Living Dead change idea

[Undeadfire]

I understand your point, but with tanks having ridiculous healing, Bolides draw back does not exist. Only Drk has the real drawback.

[Lyth]

There's still a non-trivial cost attached. If you were doing something like the Gabriel duel on GNB, you'd be relying on the likes of Aurora over the 10 seconds to try to get your HP up, and even if you had HoC available these are still cooldowns that you've burned that could have used elsewhere. A PLD would have a much easier time working around Superbolide's penalty without issue.

This very much reminds me of the discussion around tank stances. DRK and PLD players consistently asked for stances that just weren't clunky and awful to use. WAR players wanted to protect the advantages that they had. This resulted in endless debate, when the primary focus should have just been on making the stances feel fun to use on every job. The solution was a nuclear one - standardize them so that they're all identical. I think that's what we'll ultimately head to here with invulns, because players will always try to retain their turf advantages even if it means making other jobs feel bad to play. It's such a bizarre way of thinking.

[The_User]

Superbolide isn't that free. A healing resource is needed when you MT. So it is either Super+Aurora or healer resource meanwhile HG need nothing but people don't see it this way because PLD don't have a 60s heal on demand that didn't tied with damage to begin with.


Also, I don't believe a tank that nearly immortal isn't broken.



The right move would be asking for Dark Knight to have a proper self heal and a better short cooldown instead of making LD powercreeped other invul.

I do not want DRK to be like PLD during SHB that by having HG [which dev believe it is too strong] result in the job aren't allowed to have a 60s heal nor extra 90s mitigation like GNB and WAR. They also have a funny ability like Spirit Within while having no healing baked in their rotation at all like other tank. Having deal only 5% more damage and overpowered invul isn't worth trading with having everything else suck. LD isn't the only thing that make people switch to GNB

[Zairava]

The right move would be asking for Dark Knight to have a proper self heal and better short cooldown instead of making LD powercreeped other invul.

I do not want DRK to be like PLD during SHB that by having HG [which dev believe it is too strong] result in the job aren't allowed to have a 60s heal nor extra 90s mitigation like GNB and WAR. They also have a funny ability like Spirit Within while having no healing baked in their rotation at all like other tank.

Yeah but honestly PLD doesn't actually need it, the way clemency works is perfectly fine, it should be a dps loss seeing as how powerful it is on a single cast.

DRK needs something though. I would honestly prefer if DRK's sustain came back to how it was during Stormblood, but to avoid making making flood redundant (if they keep it) they make Dark Arts like eukrasia (which is the evolution of DA anyway), make it cost 10 darkside gauge, and make Flood become Abyssal Drain when used, and some sort of single target heal from edge..Abyssal Slash or something. I'd also bring back Scourge using this method but that's another topic

I'm sure there's better ways than this though. I'd enjoy a return of sole survivor in some way

[Lyth]

...

If you think that abilities like Hallowed and Superbolide are overpowered, then that's a completely different discussion altogether. They're in the game regardless. Any ability that lets you cheat death is intrinsically going to be incredibly powerful. That's why they're capstone abilities. They probably all should be on a longer recast, but again, that's a different discussion.

I don't think that every tank needs to be designed around burst self-healing. The central challenge on tank is knowing when to mitigate damage and by how much. For lifesteal to be skillful, there has to be a timing element around it (i.e. restore a percentage of damage taken in the past X seconds). On demand burst healing is boring. Rather than trying to copy WAR with worse self-healing and a worse Holmgang, it makes sense to focus on pre-empting damage, because that's what DRK is designed around at present. You cannot put an invuln with high healing requirements on DRK without turning it into what WAR is now.

[Xander_Diabolos]

Dark Knight: Souleater (combo #3) - 300 Cure Potency
Abyssal Drain - 200 Cure Potency per enemy hit

Gunbreaker: Brutal Shell (combo #2) - 200 Cure Potency+200 Barrier Potency
Aurora - 200 Cure Potency+Regen (2 stacks)/Heart of Corundum - 900 Cure Potency

GNB does go down to 1 HP (even if full) but at least becomes immune to damage during the time and has resources to get HP back.
DRK's only way to get HP back is Abyssal Drain around enough enemies to make it count or Souleater. It makes them completely depend on a healer to bring them to full HP even if they don't know they have to. I do think they need to buff soul eater healing regardless since it is the only single target source of healing they can do. It was fine when none of the other tanks had as much healing in their arsenal, but DRK in other FF games are known to heal off damage and sacrifice health to do more damage so they shouldn't be falling behind in healing department.

Realistic Proposal to Living Dead:
Grants the effect of Living Dead. When HP is reduced to 0 while under the effect of Living Dead, instead of becoming KO'd, your status will change to Walking Dead.
Living Dead Duration: 10s
While under the effect of Walking Dead, most attacks will not lower your HP below 1. If, when the Walking Dead timer runs out, HP is no longer 1, the effect will fade. If HP is at 1 when the effect fades, you will be KO'd.
Walking Dead Duration: 10s

I also think it would be cool if they changed Living Shadow to be created with full HP and take damage instead of you for the duration instead. Could function in essence like a barrier allowing time to recover your own health.

[The_User]

It isn't a completely different discussion. If you believe the current LD need to change because you think it is imbalance then you still need to care about balance and not make it worse. Powercreep isn't the answer because at the end of the day we agree that the overpowered abilities need to be toned down.



It is no longer a challenge when we can see the tank buster is coming from miles away if you're talking about a dread spike thing. We could even predict it before get in the raid because it is scripted to happen at a fixed time.



Also, I believe that I said LD need to be better than Holm not worse.

[Lyth]

It's not primarily a balance issue. Living Dead is poorly designed on multiple levels. Incorrect mouseover tooltips, no UI element to show you the remaining healing required to cleanse the effect, cleansing WD removes your death prevention, loss of player agency. It's a long list. MagiusNecros noted that there's a certain DRK trust character who uses Holmgang instead of Living Dead, which goes to show that even the dev team doesn't think that it's reliable. The fact that it's obviously inferior to other invulns provides an opportunity to actually address the underlying design failure.

If you don't think that Living Dead has some serious design problems that need to be addressed, I'm really curious to know what stake you have in this discussion. It's hard to tell which job your concern is actually directed towards. If you're worried that PLD will be left behind, I think the simplest solution is to come up with three unique penalty conditions for GNB, PLD, and DRK that the player themselves is capable of working around, and set them all at the same recast.

[Terhix]

While under the effect of Walking Dead, most attacks will not lower your HP below 1. If, when the Walking Dead timer runs out, HP is no longer 1, the effect will fade. If HP is at 1 when the effect fades, you will be KO'd.
Walking Dead Duration: 10s

Yep, as I said, the only way for it not to be a problem is to either remove the kill mechanic completely, or make it so trivial it might as well not be there. I think it would be fine if KO happened if you are <50% HP when WD fades. You still get full duration out of it (no early bene killing you because second TB is coming), and you are likely to be organically healed to the safe threshold, even by healers that might not know how it works.

[Danelo]

Yep, as I said, the only way for it not to be a problem is to either remove the kill mechanic completely, or make it so trivial it might as well not be there. I think it would be fine if KO happened if you are <50% HP when WD fades. You still get full duration out of it (no early bene killing you because second TB is coming), and you are likely to be organically healed to safe the threshold, even by healers that might not know how it works.

I won’t be holding my breath to hear about changes but I wish you guys the best and you absolutely should expect mid expansion rework on DRK. When SE is holding on to QoL changes for expansions and treating that as if it’s worthy then they loose their immunity to the argument of not being able to rework until 7x. If there are too many jobs, hire more people, after all ff14 is printing money for SQEX.