When are we supposed to stop fighting?

[redheadturk]

We are the descendants of the people of Amaurot. It really doesn't matter if we're not as pretty as your fictional spouses with their luminescent eyes. It doesn't matter that our lives now involve more hardship than our ancestors did. We're one and the same, down to the same character flaws and the susceptibility towards making dumb mistakes.

'And so, as a show of respect to the last of us, I make this declaration. You will not end our journey! That is our answer! The answer of all lives of Etheirys, past and present!' Hope will ever counter despair, so long as you have the resilience to look for it. In Greek Mythology, 'Elpis' is the spirit of hope, and is also intrinsically linked with suffering.

And did you catch the transition in Emet's phrasing as he comes to terms with this fact? We went from 'You cannot be entrusted with our legacy,' to 'Do not squander it. The legacy I leave you.' If even he of all people can do it, so can you. You have the answer to your very own question.

Many of us love the individual people that were, and would very much like a separate timeline where we don't have to lose them, where we know they are alive and ok. the "We are the descendants of these people" doesn't fix or solve that. The sundered shards of them are not the same people, no matter how you rationalize it. Do we have some of the same soul deep traits? Sure. But a reborn Hades or Hythlodaeus will have different experiences that shape them, different memories. They will not be the same people we have grown to love.

[Lauront]

[...]your fictional spouses with their luminescent eyes.[...]

[...]take out their narcissistic aggression on forum posters.[...]

How things come full circle.

[Lyth]

I'm likewise delighted that you also showed up to own up to it. It must have been stewing with you for a while now, heh.

Many of us love the individual people that were, and would very much like a separate timeline where we don't have to lose them, where we know they are alive and ok. the "We are the descendants of these people" doesn't fix or solve that. The sundered shards of them are not the same people, no matter how you rationalize it. Do we have some of the same soul deep traits? Sure. But a reborn Hades or Hythlodaeus will have different experiences that shape them, different memories. They will not be the same people we have grown to love.

No, they're not the same people. They're descendants. Remember that in the end, all attachments are transient. Amaurot was never going to last forever, and neither will our civilization.

'But what of the lost? Do they not deserve to live again?'
'They do. In our hearts and our souls and our memories.'

You could, based on what we know, conceivably go back in time, kill Hermes before he creates Meteion, and avert the Final Days that way, and negate your character's entire life journey from ARR to date. It might create a Grandfather paradox, but let's set that aside. In the end, all the people that you briefly met and fell in love with in Elpis will still die eventually. Perhaps they would simply run into another problem elsewhere with their creation magic, such as the experiments being run in Pandaemonium. That's a story in itself with a completely different cast of characters, but it's just not this story. You could write it, if you like.

[Theodric]

Many of us love the individual people that were, and would very much like a separate timeline where we don't have to lose them, where we know they are alive and ok. the "We are the descendants of these people" doesn't fix or solve that. The sundered shards of them are not the same people, no matter how you rationalize it. Do we have some of the same soul deep traits? Sure. But a reborn Hades or Hythlodaeus will have different experiences that shape them, different memories. They will not be the same people we have grown to love.

If nothing else, with the game being set to receive active development for at least another ten years then I think there's ample room for more content revolving around the Ancients. Perhaps not as soon as 7.0 or even 8.0 but at some point in the future? I, for one, would not be opposed.

I never played FFXI but from what I heard, it had an entire expansion based around a major 'what if history played out differently' moment. ESO also has a lot of neat nods to the distant past throughout its various expansions and so, too, does WoW so I daresay it'd likely go down fairly well for many. Not that everybody can be pleased, of course, but still.

[Lauront]

I'm likewise delighted that you also showed up to own up to it. It must have been stewing with you for a while now, heh.

I think it's rather abundantly clear who really owns it. The projection does dovetail so very well with that trait, after all.

[KageTokage]

Despite initial claims that all traces of Ancient cilvilization were likely wiped out on the Source by the calamities, with said calamities seeming to be largely isolated to Eorzea I feel like we're liable to keep stumbling across more as time goes on.

I'm fully expecting those ruins beneath the Bounty that Emet mentioned to be the subject of the EW alliance raids, personally.

[Theodric]

Despite initial claims that all traces of Ancient cilvilization were likely wiped out on the Source by the calamities, with said calamities seeming to be largely isolated to Eorzea I feel like we're liable to keep stumbling across more as time goes on.

I'm fully expecting those ruins beneath the Bounty that Emet mentioned to be the subject of the EW alliance raids, personally.

Insofar as ruins are concerned, aside from being one of my favourite dungeons in the game I'd note that Skalla is in surprisingly good condition given everything that it endured over the ages.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turns out that something similar to Elpis managed to survive even on the Sundered version of Etheirys. I suppose there's also the possibility that at least one of the Reflections evolved in such a way as to discover the ruins of Amaurot and embraced the architecture and teachings of the Ancients.

[Veloran]

Insofar as ruins are concerned, aside from being one of my favourite dungeons in the game I'd note that Skalla is in surprisingly good condition given everything that it endured over the ages.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turns out that something similar to Elpis managed to survive even on the Sundered version of Etheirys. I suppose there's also the possibility that at least one of the Reflections evolved in such a way as to discover the ruins of Amaurot and embraced the architecture and teachings of the Ancients.

Since Estinien is still waiting for a meeting with Vrtra and the Bounty is quite literally right next door to Thavnair, I have to wonder if those ruins will be the subject of 6.1.

[Theodric]

Since Estinien is still waiting for a meeting with Vrtra and the Bounty is quite literally right next door to Thavnair, I have to wonder if those ruins will be the subject of 6.1.

It does seem to be a safe bet. Corvos has also been mentioned a lot so I don't doubt that we'll be going there as well at some point in the future.

[redheadturk]

I'm likewise delighted that you also showed up to own up to it. It must have been stewing with you for a while now, heh.

No, they're not the same people. They're descendants. Remember that in the end, all attachments are transient. Amaurot was never going to last forever, and neither will our civilization.

'But what of the lost? Do they not deserve to live again?'
'They do. In our hearts and our souls and our memories.'

You could, based on what we know, conceivably go back in time, kill Hermes before he creates Meteion, and avert the Final Days that way, and negate your character's entire life journey from ARR to date. It might create a Grandfather paradox, but let's set that aside. In the end, all the people that you briefly met and fell in love with in Elpis will still die eventually. Perhaps they would simply run into another problem elsewhere with their creation magic, such as the experiments being run in Pandaemonium. That's a story in itself with a completely different cast of characters, but it's just not this story. You could write it, if you like.

I'm talking more along the lines of something like a branched timeline. Would we be able to go back there once we shunted it off ala G'raha? No. But it'd be enough for me to know they still survived in that alternate timeline. The way I am playing it in the AU I am writing is that my WoL went back a second time, and sabotaged Kairos so that no one forgot. Which meant that Emet could plan a way to take care of Meteion without all that mess and bloodshed. That basically branched off the timeline. Venat knew it and actually approved of my WoL's ingenuity and determination that no one was to be given up for lost.