Has anyone quit healing?

[ty_taurus]

Same on my server.
I play both healer types and I am usually the last one to complete a party by joining as Pure healer.
Barely have the chance to play Shield healer in PF raids.

What blows is I see a lot of parties trying to enforce a pure/barrier duo which is currently ridiculous because SGE/SCH is incredibly strong. The only fight where it makes sense is P3S, specifically wanting an AST who can just skip Death's Toll with Macrocosmos.

[Risvertasashi]

What blows is I see a lot of parties trying to enforce a pure/barrier duo which is currently ridiculous because SGE/SCH is incredibly strong. The only fight where it makes sense is P3S, specifically wanting an AST who can just skip Death's Toll with Macrocosmos.

SGE+SCH is very strong, but overwriting each others shields feels terrible and wastes resources. In a PF environment, you're not as likely to get people saying "you shield this I'll shield that", particularly when you might need to chart that out 10 or 20 times over the course of a fight. Static are another story, where cohealers are more likely to at least communicate, if not have an actual spreadsheeting showing what mitigation is used where.

[ty_taurus]

SGE+SCH is very strong, but overwriting each others shields feels terrible and wastes resources. In a PF environment, you're not as likely to get people saying "you shield this I'll shield that", particularly when you might need to chart that out 10 or 20 times over the course of a fight. Static are another story, where cohealers are more likely to at least communicate, if not have an actual spreadsheeting showing what mitigation is used where.

I mean I guess that would be an issue if barrier heals were an essential part of SCH or SGE gameplay, but they're not. E. Prognosis and especially E. Diagnosis are my two least useful heals next to Pepsis. I really only use it to mitigate really nasty raid-wides in Savage that can threaten to kill someone, but if we have a SCH, and they're on top of those, then I pretty much just don't cast my barriers because why would I? There's still prepull, and situations like ACT II or FoF where I'm separated from the other healer, but beyond those I just DPS instead and rely on my actually important heals.

Meanwhile what we get in exchange is: higher healer DPS, more mitigation, constant regens with no DPS loss, and Expedient. That's not to say that AST can't replace either and do a fantastic job with their toolset, but that the "Problem" of SCH/SGE is irrelevant.

[Liam_Harper]

What blows is I see a lot of parties trying to enforce a pure/barrier duo which is currently ridiculous because SGE/SCH is incredibly strong. The only fight where it makes sense is P3S, specifically wanting an AST who can just skip Death's Toll with Macrocosmos.

I love seeing WHM party leaders excluding AST in P1 or P2s. Sure, turn down the healer that can almost solo heal the fight for you and bring a SCH who pays tax on their aether heals. You can be the tax comp.

SGE+SCH is very strong, but overwriting each others shields feels terrible and wastes resources. In a PF environment, you're not as likely to get people saying "you shield this I'll shield that", particularly when you might need to chart that out 10 or 20 times over the course of a fight. Static are another story, where cohealers are more likely to at least communicate, if not have an actual spreadsheeting showing what mitigation is used where.

To be fair, if both healers are spamming Shields it wouldn't matter if they were Pure + Shield instead, they'd just be spamming Medica II overheals. I have seen some absolutely dreadful WHM + Shield comps in PF, so that issue isn't really solved by restricting role. You're in trouble regardless if you get 2 GCD heal spammers.
There's also a reasonable chance that if a shield healer joins a PF knowing their co-heal is also a shield healer, they'll know what they're doing. Inexperienced players would avoid that party like the plague.

[Risvertasashi]

To be fair, if both healers are spamming Shields it wouldn't matter if they were Pure + Shield instead, they'd just be spamming Medica II overheals. I have seen some absolutely dreadful WHM + Shield comps in PF, so that issue isn't really solved by restricting role. You're in trouble regardless if you get 2 GCD heal spammers.
There's also a reasonable chance that if a shield healer joins a PF knowing their co-heal is also a shield healer, they'll know what they're doing. Inexperienced players would avoid that party like the plague.

I'm not talking about that extreme. It can be as simple as "for the 8 major mechanics of the fight, each healer tries to put up a GCD shield" that can make things uncomfortable - and that's hardly spamming. Or, alternatively, each healer assumes the other healer will shield and so doesn't.

Basically, healers can be competent and it can still be a problem that can push people towards a more traditional setup in pugs.

[ty_taurus]

I'm not talking about that extreme. It can be as simple as "for the 8 major mechanics of the fight, each healer tries to put up a GCD shield" that can make things uncomfortable - and that's hardly spamming. Or, alternatively, each healer assumes the other healer will shield and so doesn't.

Basically, healers can be competent and it can still be a problem that can push people towards a more traditional setup in pugs.

Well, if we're talking about savage, then all you have to do is have a 15 second conversation with your cohealer. You could argue that some players still wont' do that, but that's user error, not a design flaw. Jennifer's apathetic inability to say "hey, you're a Sage, I'm a Scholar, let me handle the barriers for raidwides" is not a valid criticism of the system. If it's not savage, then it really doesn't matter anyway.

[Rilifane]

I'm not talking about that extreme. It can be as simple as "for the 8 major mechanics of the fight, each healer tries to put up a GCD shield" that can make things uncomfortable - and that's hardly spamming. Or, alternatively, each healer assumes the other healer will shield and so doesn't.

Basically, healers can be competent and it can still be a problem that can push people towards a more traditional setup in pugs.

Worst case: both healers use a GCD shield each and wasted a GCD; that's hardly what I would call problematic, let alone reason enough to stick to a regen/ shield over dbl shield comp.
Succor and EProg shield are about the same and raidwides aren't balanced around a crit Spreadlo. It's not a problem, it's just PF being extremely stubborn about some things for no good reason such as locking comp to double melee, excluding double classes that don't interfer with each other for raid buffs, willing to take double regen but double shield is somehow cursed.

A competent healer will never be a problem in this scenario.

[ty_taurus]

Worst case: both healers use a GCD shield each and wasted a GCD; that's hardly what I would call problematic, let alone reason enough to stick to a regen/ shield over dbl shield comp.
Succor and EProg shield are about the same and raidwides aren't balanced around a crit Spreadlo. It's not a problem, it's just PF being extremely stubborn about some things for no good reason such as locking comp to double melee, excluding double classes that don't interfer with each other for raid buffs, willing to take double regen but double shield is somehow cursed.

A competent healer will never be a problem in this scenario.

I feel like double regen is the one you don't want to have in savage, at least not at lower ilvls. Savage requires a lot of mitigation which WHM just can't keep up with. Double AST might be able to though with good communication, but the overlapping raid buffs would not be ideal.

[Risvertasashi]

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I mean, you two and Liam can argue that all you like. I'm not saying I'm favor of traditional setups in pugs. I'm just conveying the reasoning I've come across in talking to people - wherein it's basically an issue of comfort and coordination. (And, yes, a 15 second conversation is asking a lot of pugs :P Even for savage)