FFXIV Has the Population to Support an ELO system for Duty Finder / Party Finder

[Thi]

And what if I'm crap at the game but still want to play with my friends who are better than me who are willing to put up with my subpar gameplay?

In your scenario it would be "screw that, make new friends".

As a pre-made that isn't an issue, as they choose to run with you. If they needed to fill any slots in DF it would pull based on lowest ELO.

[Rinhi]

More like Rainbow Six Finder.

why'd you have to remind me how they killed the casual gamemode with the hidden mmr...

Are you confusing "refusal to learn" with "refusal to optimize"? I have been playing regularly since March 2020 and have never encountered an endgame player who did not know how to play their role. It's fine if someone isn't playing optimally in duty finder content, and if you think it isn't then that's a failing on your end. It doesn't matter if you have to spend an extra 5-10 minutes in content because some people aren't playing optimally. Toxic casualism is a myth elitists use to try and stigmatize healthy people who don't take video games seriously. AFKing in content and griefing are what trolls do, not casual players. And I don't even know what 'alternative playstyles' means.

Unhealthy people who take this game seriously (i.e., "elites"), are the only people I see spewing toxicity. They get upset when things don't go their way, as if anything that happens in the game matters.

not only is littleimp probably the furthest from an elitist, you also seem to misunderstand what they're saying, like, the majority of their posts in these topics are berating the players that take DF content too seriously and yet you're of the assumption that they're that type of player lol
what they're saying is correct

however, an extra 5-10 minutes add up and usually show there's at least one person in the party that isn't pulling their weight, and, if we're being honest, what imp in this context is talking about would add more than 10 minutes to a short dungeon
toxic casualism is where people are actively defending and excusing people not really playing, where people are saying crap like "you pull it you tank it", where people abuse the kick function over nothing, where people spam lvl 1 spells in lvl 90 content and get defended
that is toxic casualism

I don't "take this game seriously", but I value my time and I respect people's times when I queue up for content and that's quite literally the least someone should expect of anyone and yet, those players don't even do that due to them being self-centered and their self-centeredness being enabled

If this is how you act when you give advice I can see how you get pushback when you give it.

so I was correct, thank you for confirming
the majority of people are thankful for any kind of advice, thank you very much, but there are also people like you who get upset over a little tip for no reason

[Thi]

Are you confusing "refusal to learn" with "refusal to optimize"? I have been playing regularly since March 2020 and have never encountered an endgame player who did not know how to play their role. It's fine if someone isn't playing optimally in duty finder content, and if you think it isn't then that's a failing on your end. It doesn't matter if you have to spend an extra 5-10 minutes in content because some people aren't playing optimally. Toxic casualism is a myth elitists use to try and stigmatize healthy people who don't take video games seriously. AFKing in content and griefing are what trolls do, not casual players. And I don't even know what 'alternative playstyles' means.

Unhealthy people who take this game seriously (i.e., "elites"), are the only people I see spewing toxicity. They get upset when things don't go their way, as if anything that happens in the game matters.

There is a huge gulf between refusing to learn their job and refusing to optimize.

A DPS who does less damage than the avg healer or tank in my opinion is someone who has refused to learn their role. At that point your better off having another tank or healer because they can at least offer more survivability at no damage loss.

Generally these are players who only single target on aoe pulls or don't keep their GCD rolling.

I wouldn't consider pressing a skill every 2.5 seconds or using AOE optimizing.

[icrot]

Ironically, you've pretty much described 90% of roulette content in XIV right now.

You are absolutely right, roulettes are usually 5-15 mins. But I know you get my point.

[LittleImp]

Are you confusing "refusal to learn" with "refusal to optimize"? I have been playing regularly since March 2020 and have never encountered an endgame player who did not know how to play their role. It's fine if someone isn't playing optimally in duty finder content, and if you think it isn't then that's a failing on your end. It doesn't matter if you have to spend an extra 5-10 minutes in content because some people aren't playing optimally.

I was defining a term, not making an attack on anyone. I don't understand why you seem so inflamed by it.

We're not talking about optimization. We're talking about fundamental issues such as:

1. Not using AoE attacks
2. Doing 0 DPS as a healer
3. Failing to utilize the majority of your kit as a healer, leading to frequent wipes
4. Not using mitigation as a Tank
5. Failing to hold aggro as a Tank

"Optimization" is typically something that impacts smaller margins, whereas many of these types of issues cause much more significant differences (like factors of 2-3x).

Alternative playstyles are when someone knows the 'proper' way to play, but intentionally chooses not to engage with the game in that way. This covers things like job-stoneless players, "pure" healers, WARs that refuse to main-tank, refusing to use certain abilities etc.

Toxic casualism is a myth elitists use to try and stigmatize healthy people who don't take video games seriously. AFKing in content and griefing are what trolls do, not casual players. And I don't even know what 'alternative playstyles' means.

Unhealthy people who take this game seriously (i.e., "elites"), are the only people I see spewing toxicity. They get upset when things don't go their way, as if anything that happens in the game matters.

Clearly, it isn't a myth. I just defined a term for someone, and even stated that toxic casuals are rare and that the problem is over-exaggerated. You responded with weird veiled insults and otherwise aggressive language, clearly coming from a place of strong emotion towards the issue.

[Gaethan_Tessula]

Toxic casualism is a myth elitists use to try and stigmatize healthy people who don't take video games seriously. AFKing in content and griefing are what trolls do, not casual players. And I don't even know what 'alternative playstyles' means.

Unhealthy people who take this game seriously (i.e., "elites"), are the only people I see spewing toxicity. They get upset when things don't go their way, as if anything that happens in the game matters.

I was sitting in a Min-ilvl, No Echo PF for Lakshmi EX the other night, filled mostly with new players who wanted to experience old fights rather than faceroll them unsync'd. I was looking for some nostalgia and variety, and was willing to teach mechanics. The PF was properly labeled as Sync'd, Min-ilvl, and No Echo. We get a RPR come in as the final person to fill the party. They immediately open up with "if you're looking to farm doggos, it's easier unsync." A little annoying, as the PF was explicitly labeled just about the opposite of unsync, but it's technically a true statement. Party leader tells them that we're not looking to farm, we're here for the experience. Someone else chips in that she doesn't feel like she's earned the rewards of a fight unless she beats it MINE, while I tell the new players that they must Vril chanchala'd attacks from Lakshmi that will hit them, as well as her hug ultimate.

Not sure whether it was the other player expressing her personal opinion about when she's satisfied with getting rewards from a fight, or my use of the word "must" in explaining mechanics, but the RPR claps back with "who do you think you are, to tell other people how they should play!?" Queue me and bunch of other people getting angry and starting a fight with the RPR (not my finest moment, no). The RPR then starts ranting about toxic elitism, accuses us of enforcing our playstyle on him because we won't unsync the fight (he joined our clearly labeled MINE party), accuses us of trying to gatekeep him from a mount, and just generally makes the entire experience unpleasant. Especially for the new players caught in the middle.

After we clear the fight (it's still Lakshmi, so quick clear despite some mess), most of the group (including the RPR) leave, despite the original plan being to do the rest of the StB EX's. I then learn from the party leader that this RPR has been a continual pest, having come into her MINE parties on several preceding nights. Every time, he tries to demand the group run the content unsync'd instead.

That's toxic casualism - entering into a group explicitly trying to do content for a challenge, and loudly proclaiming that they're gatekeeping, no-fun-allowed tryhards. Especially when a spotlight is shined on their unwillingness to put in the bare minimum (like using a role action to not instantly die). It's not common, but it very much exists.

[Dracosavarian]

This games biggest issue that there are huge differences in the playstyle of players and they are forced to group with each other unless you go in a pre-made.

What I propose is to bring in an ELO system to this game that ranks your individual performance and groups you with similar players.

• If you are an optimizer and play your job at peak performance? You get grouped with other people of the same mindset.
  
• If you are competent and can keep your GCD rolling? (and thus above average sadly) You get grouped with similar players who also do the same.
  
• If you don't care about combat and just want to play the game? You get to play with all the other people with the same mindset.

To be fair in this system everyone would start at the middle and would go up or down based on individual performance in duties per role.

After some time, the player base is sorted out and Elitists and Toxic Casuals will never have to interact with each other again.

As an extra bonus you could set your Party Finder to only allow Rank x-x to preemptively filter and make less trap parties in PF.

Just gonna say, I am so glad that the Dev Team will never code in this exclusionist garbage.

Don’t want to deal with other randoms? Please build your own party.

[Asmodai]

A large portion of the player base has worked so hard and gnashed their teeth enough to keep people from knowing/confronting them about poor performance so they could play with people better than them(read be carried). If they did this, it would wash all that hard work down the drain.

[Asmodai]

Are you confusing "refusal to learn" with "refusal to optimize"? I have been playing regularly since March 2020 and have never encountered an endgame player who did not know how to play their role. It's fine if someone isn't playing optimally in duty finder content, and if you think it isn't then that's a failing on your end. It doesn't matter if you have to spend an extra 5-10 minutes in content because some people aren't playing optimally. Toxic casualism is a myth elitists use to try and stigmatize healthy people who don't take video games seriously. AFKing in content and griefing are what trolls do, not casual players. And I don't even know what 'alternative playstyles' means.

Unhealthy people who take this game seriously (i.e., "elites"), are the only people I see spewing toxicity. They get upset when things don't go their way, as if anything that happens in the game matters.

The irony of this post is astounding.

[Illmaeran]

This games biggest issue that there are huge differences in the playstyle of players and they are forced to group with each other unless you go in a pre-made.

What I propose is to bring in an ELO system to this game that ranks your individual performance and groups you with similar players.

• If you are an optimizer and play your job at peak performance? You get grouped with other people of the same mindset.
  
• If you are competent and can keep your GCD rolling? (and thus above average sadly) You get grouped with similar players who also do the same.
  
• If you don't care about combat and just want to play the game? You get to play with all the other people with the same mindset.

To be fair in this system everyone would start at the middle and would go up or down based on individual performance in duties per role.

After some time, the player base is sorted out and Elitists and Toxic Casuals will never have to interact with each other again.

As an extra bonus you could set your Party Finder to only allow Rank x-x to preemptively filter and make less trap parties in PF.

Hard pass. One of the fundamental pillars of this game's design is getting people to play together, regardless of skill level. Ranking systems in other games have only served to encourage exclusionary behaviors, to the game's detriment. Party finder's what it is for a reason and there's always the option to create statics. If people aren't able to perform as people expect in them, then they get the boot. General open-community play should never be restricted.