Dark Knight Megathread

[Ryaduera]

Ahh, damn, that sucks. I went from basically the same in StB (though I kicked myself rather than letting anyone else do it) to starting into grad school + part-time work later into ShB. Still in that now. I used to at least PuG a bit on my tank alt, but I've lost a bit of that willpower over time.

"Hey guys I'm a security supervisor so if I get called in to work I pretty much have to show up, it's in my contract so if i get called in on raid night I will have no choice. I can join this static if you're ok with that?"

"That's fine, yeah."

*Get's called in and can't show up*
*Shocked Pikachu Face*

"Unacceptable, kick him out."

Gonna leave that there since this discussion is no longer productive to the issues DRK faces and we're just idly chatting, but I had to add that bit for humor.

[Shurrikhan]

Gonna leave that there since this discussion is no longer productive to the issues DRK faces

Alright, I've got something for you then. Most of them are probably terrible ideas, but I just want to see what paint sticks, so to speak.

Context:

• I'd like more control over at least one element of our burst period(s), but also for our burst period(s) to be more varied, whether that be by including reactive elements, having less of its tools synced strictly to every 60s, purposely offering mini-burst periods, or whatever else.
• Living Shadow NEEDS to be more interesting.
• I'd like to bring back some element of empowering one's abilities, but ideally for utility and control rather than potency.
• Obviously, Dark Mind and Living Dead need fixing.
• DRK needs to get certain of its capacities sooner. (This has been covered to death, though, so let's just assume I'll be using the same recommendations as before regarding Dark Missionary, Stalwart Soul, and Blood skills and Blood generation.)
• DRK needs more sustain*, ideally without empowering its potency-based mitigation to cheesier heights. (I use "sustain" as a larger umbrella term that seats both healing and mitigation, which can both be stat- or potency based or content-based [percentiles].)

The following random ideas do not necessarily all belong together. Pick and choose a set from among them as you please.

A Core Thematic Trait

Blood for Blood
Upon the death of any party member or any enemy that would grant experience, regenerate 10% of your MP and HP. Additionally, your self-healing is increased by a percent equal to your missing %HP. (Damage over time effects will cause this trait to act as if you had already lost the full, normal amount of health to be lost from those effects.)

• You now get to reap mobs. That's pretty much always fun, especially in terms of "You die or I die!" gambles at the end of a pack, or FATE-grinding in general. It feels good to be able to overspend at the end of a fight and still be able to cast something within the first 20 seconds of another fight immediately thereafter. Simple as that.
• This has synergies with "stagger" mitigation (whereby damage is delayed to instead be taken over time), since your self-healing is immediately increased.
• Unskilled, or underhealed, party members can now provide blood for the blood god.
• No longer is "HP-bar Limbo" just an AST game. You are rewarded with increased sustain for shuffling to higher DTPS spans as much percentile mitigation as you can survive without. You'll scare the poop out of healers for doing so, but that's also fun in itself so long as you can, say, nail a couple meaty Bloodspiller crits to immediately bounce back a fair bit.
• Edited out the "that would grant experience" clause, since with the changes to exp from dungeons, this would no longer work.

Selective Mitigation Types Without Needing Extra Buttons

Shadowskin (replacing Dark Mind)
Delays 30% of incoming damage to instead be dealt over 6 seconds after it would have been taken and grants the effects of Dark Mind and Dark Dance.
Dark Mind: 50% of your magical damage dealt is stored as a barrier which absorbs incoming magical damage, causing it to instead heal you.
Dark Dance: 50% of your physical damage dealt is stored as a barrier. While the barrier is active, you parry all incoming physical attacks. The mitigation provided in this way depletes this shield at the same amount.

• Obviously, I've not tuned this. It's just a basic concept. Hit Shadowskin, and blow Edges, Floods, and Shadowbringer to absorb magic damage or Bloodspillers and Carve (or Quietus in dungeons), etc., to briefly guarantee parries.
  Dark Dance has the further advantage of being all mitigation, no healing, and quantizes (still parries the full hit even if only 1 HP remains on the shield), so it really should be tuned back relative to Dark Mind.
• The whopping 30% damage-delay is because you could immediately by hit with a tick that'd hold a third of the delayed damage, making it really feel like 20-30% anyways. (Depending on the technicals of implementation, of course.)

Some Possible Sustain "Solutions"

Bloodspiller and Quietus adjusted
Down to 40 Blood cost, allowing natural generation of Blood spenders to no longer be so badly dwarfed by what's produced by CDs (Delirium and Blood Weapon) alone.
Now also either (A) generate a leech period (e.g., Requiem - 4s - The DRK heals for 30% of damage dealt) or (B) heals for a portion of their own damage alone.

• That's the simplest solution, honestly. You add a bit more banking, granting 2 uses per 35 seconds, accelerated from 42.5 seconds, of natural generation, and let those bankables heal.
• Obviously, you could also do this through just buffing Abyssal Drain, giving Carve a heal to compete at 3 or fewer enemies, and lowering their shared CD. Or, plenty of other ways. I slightly prefer this one, though, just because, especially if using a Leech period, it makes Blood feel more integral and impactful.

A Slight Blood Spender / Delirium Adjustment

Rather than Delirium, alone, refunding the MP generation lost to using Blood spenders, Bloodspiller and Quietus themselves will refund their third or half of an ST or AoE combo's MP, respectively.

• To put it another way, rather than Delirium tacking on effect to blood spenders, Bloodspiller now always grants 200 MP and Quietus always grants 300 MP.
• Quietus simply gives 500 MP right now because the intern in charge of DRK forgot that with EW they nerfed Stalwart Soul's MP gen from 1000 to 600. 600/2 = 300, not 500.
• Edit: Some further clarification.

The Obligatory Living Dead Fix

Living Dead
Grants the effect of Living Dead. When HP is reduced to 0 while under the effect of Living Dead, instead of becoming KO'd, you are healed to 50% health and status will change to Walking Dead.
Living Dead Duration: 10s
Healing received is nullified up to an amount equal to 50% of your HP. While under the effect of Walking Dead, most attacks will not lower your HP below 1.
Walking Dead Duration: 10s

• Not a huge fan of it so far, but it covers the basic needs.

An Actually Maybe Fun Living Shadow

Living Shadow
Ability - 90s recast time
Conjure a simulacrum of your darkside to fight alongside you, duplicating your attacks for 50% effect. While the Living Shadow is active, your damage is reduced by 25%.
Reactivating Living Shadow during its duration will cause it to hold its position and will cause enemies to attack you through your Living Shadow instead. Your Living Shadow will not take damage from un-targeted attacks. Use the skill again to toggle this effect off.
Duration: 15s
Blood Gauge Cost: 50 (or 40, with the suggested Blood spender changes below)

• This is still a 12.5% net damage increase, atop what all is provided by 50% increased active HP, MP, and Blood generation.
• Until commanded to hold position, this acts more like Bunshin than an Automaton Queen, moving whenever you move, in the same way that you move -- just lagging about a meter behind (except as necessary to reach the enemy).
• You are now in full control of what your Living Shadow does. It also spawns in far more quickly, at your position, and fades out far more quickly.
• You can use the skill reactivation to hold mobs in place as you move to grab things. Honestly, it'll probably rarely be all that useful, but hey, it's an obvious use of the button.
• Yes, the 90s cooldown is intended, mostly to offer multiple degrees of burst over time.
• Edit: Some effect clarification. You do not take double the area of effect damage. Rather, you can use LS to hold mobs in place while you dodge out of AoEs.

A Complementary Mirror to TBN

Blood Price
Ability - 40s CD.
Causes each hit taken to generate 2% MP and a stack of Blood and Steel.
Duration: 10 seconds.
Blood and Steel: Damage taken is reduced by a flat amount equal to 2% of your HP, stacking up to 10 times. Effect ends when Blood Price ends.
Cannot be used simultaneously with Blood Weapon.

• This effect accumulates with, but is not refreshed by, each additional hit. (It is strongest just before duration's end.)
• Here, I'm offering sort of a mirror to TBN's purely stat-based defense, in a manner reminiscent of FFXIII's Steelguard and WotLK-era Unbreakable Armor. It still obviously benefits noticeably from stats, but in a way that disproportionately affects frequent and otherwise overwhelming hits, which tend to be found in the same situations as TBN's weakness, higher total damage.
• The more hits you take, the less you take from each hit (flat damage reduction), to the point of laughing off chip damage, some likely outright turned to 0, by the end of its duration. It also synergizes well with the DoT damage DRK can choose to take by delaying damage.
• Like Blood Weapon, below, it gets stronger over time. That seems a decent note to have for flavor, even if shallow in itself.

Oblation (now an upgrade of Blood Price)
Ability - 2 charges. 40s recharge.
For 10 seconds, grants self Blood and Steel and self or target party member the effect of Blood Price.
Upon reactivation, triggers Woe-eater.
Blood Price: Causes each hit taken to generate 2% MP and a stack of Blood and Steel.
Blood and Steel: Damage taken is reduced by a flat amount equal to 2% of your HP, stacking up to 10 times. Effect ends when Blood Price ends.
Woe-eater: Heal self or target party member for 20% of their damage taken over the last 4 seconds.

• Oblation could be a decently natural fit for that earlier Blood Price, simply allowing it to be usable on allies and to have a further degree of timing flexibility, if we wished.

Making Blood Weapon Mildly More Interesting

Blood Weapon
Ability - 40s CD - 2 charges
Increases Blood Gauge by 10 and restores MP upon landing weaponskills or spells. Each attack landed additionally decreases your auto-attack and weaponskill recast delay by 8%.
This ability's duration and recast will not progress until your next successful weaponskill.
Duration: 12s

• As long one doesn't clip, this is guaranteed (largely by the second line in the description, which removes the loss of duration otherwise caused by the animation ICD, to get out 6 hits, ending with a 1.6s GCD. Variable, ramped-up speed can be fun.
• Alternatively, we can have Blood Weapon unlock Blood variants of various weaponskills, giving us a sexy "red combo" that we'll simply want to enter at such a time as to maximize ppgcd bonuses over the duration. That idea has already been given earlier in the thread, though, and I don't to be the one pushing ideas that others have thought out more thoroughly than I have. I will just note that you can find that interesting idea earlier in this thread.
• New: At 3 casts per 2 minutes, these 2 charges allow for a 40-second flex period per 2 minutes which better allows for DRK to deal with downtime.

Blood Weapon v2
Ability - 40s CD - 2 charges
Increases Blood Gauge by 10 and restores MP upon landing weaponskills or spells. Additionally, decreases your auto-attack and weaponskill recast delay by 12%.
This ability's duration and recast will not progress until your next successful weaponskill.
Duration: 12 seconds.

• Haste is fun. Not all CDs always lining up every time is also more fun than, well, there only being two gradations of action (burst-of-any-sort and lull-of-any-sort). The 12s duration also gives a true second spare at a 2.5s GCD.
• New: At 3 casts per 2 minutes, these 2 charges allow for a 40-second flex period per 2 minutes which better allows for DRK to deal with downtime.

Minor TBN Adjustments

The Blackest Night
Ability - 12s recast
Creates a barrier around target that absorbs damage totaling 25% of target's maximum HP.
Duration: 7s
The MP cost of your next Edge of Shadow or Flood of Shadow is reduced proportionately to half the barrier consumed or removed entirely if the barrier is fully consumed.

• The idea here is that MP remains a bottleneck enough to prevent more than 4 casts of TBN per minute. Given that, TBN is made slightly more flexible.
• Just a thought I hadn't seen brought up yet. See also Archwizard's ideas a few pages back as to tack-on effects that'd be decently fitting, potent, and interesting.

Some Further Intentional Desync (at least from the 60s bursts)

Carve and Spit
Ability - 40s recast - 2 charges
Delivers a threefold attack with a potency of 510 and heals you.
Additional Effect: Restores MP
Cure Potency: 300.
Shares a recast timer with Abyssal Drain.

• That's it. Just a recast timer change. You'll still get it on your 2-minutes, but there's a bit more to track and hit between those full raid buffs.
• New: Having 2 charges allows for a 40-second flex period per 2 minutes in non-NIN comps without losing any bonus damage. This flexibility should also help to exploit the attached cure potency.

[einschwartz]

Currently working on leveling tanks now.
I dreaded leveling DRK (from Lv30) during ShB.
And the feeling is the same now in EW.

Always feel I'm at the mercy of my healer. Abyssal Drain just sucks so bad.
It's the only tank that I use Trust to level because I don't feel confident enough to run the at-level dungeons with it.

[Archwizard]

Carve and Spit
Ability - 40s recast
Delivers a threefold attack with a potency of 510.
Additional Effect: Restores MP
Shares a recast timer with Abyssal Drain.

I'd also recommend adding a ~500p "Restores HP" effect to it and bumping the potency of AD to at least 170p/target (or 220p to main target with 30% falloff), if they're going to continue sharing a CD.
Possibly putting them on charges instead of a desynched CD.

As for the rest of your suggestions... I understand that you're trying to come up with unique and creative tools, but you have to remember that sometimes things need to be simplified for the sake of the players, and existing systems like barriers, life drain and flat percentage mitigation effects already can cover things like Blood & Steel or Shadowskin while being more palatable to/recognizable by most players.

Also, the "reaping" aspect of Blood for Blood is both
A) Stepping on the toes of RPR (I know DRK had it first with Sole Survivor, but it was dropped years ago and admittedly doesn't really fit the job's own aesthetic anyway -- more Death Knight than Dark Knight).
B) What we call a "ribbon": there for flavor, but kinda pointless in encounters such as most trials and 8-man raids, unless you're banking on your allies dying for small heals.
... plus as you have listed, our self-healing is limited to 3 attacks and maybe Woe-eater.

[Navnav]

DRK is crappy. At least in dungeons, I think in raids it will be aight to play. However understand the frustrations of players here tbh.

[Anhra]

Shadowskin

I really like this Idea, it is a way more fitting way for DRK to deal with incoming damage than TBN which is just a overglorified Shield.

As for Bloodprice, the way it works is also really good, but i think it would be better if it had the reverse effect instead. Like, when it is active you get a stack of Blood and Steel everytime you get hit which grants you MP, up to, say, 5 stacks. Once you reach 5 stacks, you gain another Buff which replaces the Stacks which we will just call Bloodprice for now, which will convert any damage taken for its duration, to your Manapool instead of your HP until it goes dry.

On the matter on Lifesteal effects on DRK, i think it would be way better it Bloodweapon would be the only way for DRK to get this effect, BUT one of the mitigation tools should have in a similar way on how Holy Sheltron/Bloodwhetting/HoC works, if you get hit during the 4sec "parry" window, you get either the Bloodweapon effect granted, or it resets the CD of it.

[Ayer2015]

I've been leveling tanks finally this xpac, and man DRK needs some love in the way to defense. I feel like wet paper. I understand wanting to have "magic defense" as a niche, but practically speaking it level DRK is a poor position when running dungeons.

[Danelo]

DRK is crappy. At least in dungeons, I think in raids it will be aight to play. However understand the frustrations of players here tbh.

All could be fixed with unlinking ad and c&s and making ad a GCD w/cost. Won’t make it op in raids either... I’m not sure what the hold up is with this change.

[RyuDragnier]

Thinking on it, they should probably remove TBN from the MP cost and remove its free Edge/Flood. Instead, make it so TBN has an HoT on it, and shattering it burst heals you for the remaining potency. This changes the move into something you don't care whether it pops or not, you're getting healed by it the same regardless.

[Oizen]

Thinking on it, they should probably remove TBN from the MP cost and remove its free Edge/Flood. Instead, make it so TBN has an HoT on it, and shattering it burst heals you for the remaining potency. This changes the move into something you don't care whether it pops or not, you're getting healed by it the same regardless.

Maybe they should let DRK equip Axes too