Dark Knight Megathread

[ItsUrBoi]

DRK needs a bit less oGCDs and more GCDs.
Specifically looking at the low impact oGCDs like Living Shadow ( 1 button press every 2 mins, no interactions!, and Salted Earth 2 button presses every 90 seconds ).

Also here's 2 more ideas:
->Abyssal Drain/Carve and Spit costing DarkSide. They no longer share a cooldown, and Abyssal Drain has no CD.
->Abyssal Drain is not bad in design but needs to be larger in radius so it catches more mobs, around 10y would be fine, its currently just 5y. Its healing potency could also be, higher at 300, even with the damage lowered to 100.

[Shurrikhan]

How is it more flexible? I know on EW release any GCD would use an IR stack which wasn't true for Delirium, so WAR was locked into using Fell Cleave once they activated IR, but they fixed that in 6.1.

Ahh, that's right, nevermind. A WAR somewhere must have complained (albeit rightly, in this case) and quickly got the Delirium treatment there too.
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->Abyssal Drain is not bad in design but needs to be larger in radius so it catches more mobs, around 10y would be fine, its currently just 5y.

While I wouldn't be particularly opposed to a bit more range, AD can already consistently hit everything so long as you're not trying to tank from the center of a ring of mobs (which would screw over all caster and their target-centered circular AoEs).

A 5-yalm range is already the same as every circular AoE (target-centered or caster-centered) in the game. Just make sure you're aiming at the center of the pack. You need only an infinitesimally small portion of the enemies' hit-rings to overlap with that area of effect. It typically hits more than it would appear to.
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Now, personally, I prefer a strong and bankable Abyssal (i.e., two charges on 40s recast, which offers a flex cast per 2min cycle) over a [even if costly] spammable one, simply because the prior is still relatively free and needn't consume too much sustain budget on the basis of its maximum practical performance, but either path sounds like an improvement.

I also agree that we want fewer dead keys, so to speak (like the fire-and-forget 2min Living Shadow or even the twice-cast-per-90s Salted Earth -- though the latter is technically better in that regard than current Carve and Spit... let alone CnS/AD as a pairing, which at 2 buttons for a press per minute is no more efficient than Living Shadow).

[ItsUrBoi]

Now, personally, I prefer a strong and bankable Abyssal (i.e., two charges on 40s recast, which offers a flex cast per 2min cycle) over a [even if costly] spammable one, simply because the prior is still relatively free and needn't consume too much sustain budget on the basis of its maximum practical performance, but either path sounds like an improvement.

I agree. Charges on Abyssal Drain would be very nice. Here's another idea: When completing a combo with Stalwart soul , reduce the CD of Abyssal Drain by 5 seconds.

I'd like to further point out the issues with Dark Mind and Oblation. One works only for magic, one is very weak. Please merge take the damage reduction, or at least a part of it, from Dark Mind and put it into Oblation, and change Dark Mind to something more interesting or that functions in synergy with your defenses.

An example would be to change Dark Mind to a new ability that increases shielding, or converts darkside into healing. You have an abundance of darkside, so using it for something would be amazing!

[baklava151]

It's perhaps overly similar, yes, but note that it is also far more flexible. Adding little thematic differences to it like length or speed that would incidentally remove its unique affordances over Inner Release would do at least as much harm as good.

How is it more flexible? I know on EW release any GCD would use an IR stack which wasn't true for Delirium, so WAR was locked into using Fell Cleave once they activated IR, but they fixed that in 6.1.

[Marxam]

I just want to see the lvl 100 skill return to form. Make it Dark Arts, purely for the animation. DA will just work in the same way as Infuriate but with some difference:

Dark Arts:
-60 sec recast (2 charges)
-Gains 3 stacks of DA, 15 sec duration
-DA augments abilities and weapon skills.

examples of DA augments:
-TBN costs no MP (still retains free BS when popped)
-Dark Mind increased to 30% mag
-Soul Eater changed to Power Slash (increased potency, etc)
-Siphon Strike changed to Spinning Slash (increased MP)
-Stalwart Soul restores HP

This is just an example of how DA could have worked in current game design instead of being gutted and turned into flavor text on a tool tip. It copies WAR but still is uniquely different.

However as a whole I would like to see them start to make all aoe ogcds work in the same way as Expacion on PLD does, where the first target hit is full dmg and every other mob gets less potency. ex. Upheaval upgraded to Onslaught, Edge and Flood combined, etc. It would free up button space.

[Casualty]

I just want to see the lvl 100 skill return to form. Make it Dark Arts, purely for the animation. DA will just work in the same way as Infuriate but with some difference:

Dark Arts:
-60 sec recast (2 charges)
-Gains 3 stacks of DA, 15 sec duration
-DA augments abilities and weapon skills.

examples of DA augments:
-TBN costs no MP (still retains free BS when popped)
-Dark Mind increased to 30% mag
-Soul Eater changed to Power Slash (increased potency, etc)
-Siphon Strike changed to Spinning Slash (increased MP)
-Stalwart Soul restores HP

This is just an example of how DA could have worked in current game design instead of being gutted and turned into flavor text on a tool tip. It copies WAR but still is uniquely different.

However as a whole I would like to see them start to make all aoe ogcds work in the same way as Expacion on PLD does, where the first target hit is full dmg and every other mob gets less potency. ex. Upheaval upgraded to Onslaught, Edge and Flood combined, etc. It would free up button space.

The way that is described, depending on potency/MP gained, we would be using that in the opener to buff the last Syphon Strike/Soul Eater, and if lucky a TBN for a free Edge. Always. And then using the other charge to bank TBN and to lead into the next cycle with a Soul Eater. Really all that accomplishes is making the burst windows more hectic with trying to make sure that you get the most of your charges on 3 separate 15 second buffs. At least with BW and Delirium you can use the charges on the same attacks. This game's combat is too formulaic to mix offensive and defensive resources. Offense will always, always win that choice, as damage coming in is predictable.

If we had to go back to having Dark Arts as an actual oGCD I would rather it only enhance defensives, whether it be shielding ourselves or others. Do you want it to buff against a tank buster or help with group mitigation? Depends on what your team already used. That might actually be a choice.

[RyuDragnier]

If we had to go back to having Dark Arts as an actual oGCD I would rather it only enhance defensives, whether it be shielding ourselves or others. Do you want it to buff against a tank buster or help with group mitigation? Depends on what your team already used. That might actually be a choice.

It would be the best way to use DA at this point, as everybody will only ever choose damage for its use. Take that away (or make the change damage neutral), and you've knocked that problem out of the way.

[Lyth]

If you want to see 'Dark Arts' in its original form, you would likely need something similar to MCH's PvP Analysis ability.

Ryu is right in that it would need to be free from resource costs and utility/defensive exclusive, or else the highest damage choice always wins out. The downside is that it reduces your weave space, although it could equally be implemented as a proc buff.

[Marxam]

If you want to see 'Dark Arts' in its original form, you would likely need something similar to MCH's PvP Analysis ability.

Ryu is right in that it would need to be free from resource costs and utility/defensive exclusive, or else the highest damage choice always wins out. The downside is that it reduces your weave space, although it could equally be implemented as a proc buff.

WAR has already proven the DA could have worked in the 5.0+ rework. I've stated several times that DA could work like Infuriate where it changes your gcds and you perform a different animation but rather DA just gives you 3 stacks which you can use on either gcds or a limited set of ogcds. It's basically automatic and no need to double weave since its already active and ready to use and simulates what DA used to do.

Personally I'm hoping they would just fuse oblations effect to TBN and change TBN to 2 charges on a 20-25 sec recast with no MP cost. The oblation effect will still stay the entire 10 sec duration regardless if TBN popped and keep MP usage strictly to just dps. That would then let them remove DA from TBN's flavor text to reintroduce it as something else in 7.0. Imo TBN should not cost anything as shields a single shield is not necessarily "good" enough when compared to the other short tank job cds, which do more than just give a shield in some cases by providing heals and mitigation. If they really think TBN is as strong as it is, then either lower it a bit, in favor of ease-of-use. It's the only cd among the tanks that has a downside after 6.1.

[Crater]

It's the only cd among the tanks that has a downside after 6.1.

This is and always has been a strong argument for why they should keep the MP cost, and an incredibly weak argument for why they should remove it.

There are three out of four tanks that do not have any risk:reward associated with their short-cooldown mitigation skills. If you don't like risk:reward in your class design, there are multiple tanks that are already doing exactly what you want out of tank class design.
For those players who do like that aspect of risk:reward, Dark Knight is the only tank in the game that offers it as part of their kit.

What possible justification can you have for saying "I think it's fair to take away the one tank that is enjoyable to people who disagree with me so that they don't have any tanks that they find fun, in the service of making every tank do what I want it to, instead of the wholly unacceptable-to-me situation where every tank but one is designed to cater to my tastes"?