6.08 buffs, what´s the point?!

[MrJPtheAssassin]

It's only confusing if you dont know what rDPS means and what it entails. Devs do consider party buffs, which is why MCH or SAM (jobs without party buffs) have more personal damage than NIN or DNC, role counterparts with party buffs. Jobs like NIN and DNC are supposed to make up for this difference with their personal buffs.

It gets a bit more complicated when you consider that there are jobs that have real utility (Raise, Nature's minne, Improvisation etc.). This is the reason why, for example, BLM should have more rDPS than SMN and RDM. Not because these jobs have Searing Light and Embolden, but because they have Raise, Magick Barrier etc.

Ahh well I understand what rDPS is just never seen some say those words. Either way I have no dog in the mnk vs rpr fight since I hate mnk and I cant main rpr bc my group already has one. Im currently a smn main turned rdm since rdm feels better in fights like p2s and Im happy where smn and rdm are in terms of thier damage now. I just wished smn gets more into its kit, some QoL changes so downtime and blust windows arent so bad, and actally more casting so its caster.

[rewd]

I agree. The monk buff is very odd, and if I'm being honest, I'd rather have seen a buff, if any, go to Elixir Field so it has the same potency as Rising Phoenix, but more than that, I wanted changes to Six Sided Star and Anatman, not potency, just give me a reason to use those buttons.

As for the rest of the post... ninja has more party damage utility than monk, so no. Trick is up for every 60 second burst window whereas other party buffs are 120 seconds. And Machinist, while needing it, did get more of a buff than monk did. Machinist got 220 potency every 2 minutes compared to the 150 for monk. Yes, it's close and doesn't do much to close the gap between the jobs, but it is a bigger buff none the less.

Ninja's "party utility" is already factored in. If you think that jobs with utility should do less damage, then yes: Ninja, Dragoon and Samurai should all have higher rDPS than Monk (and Reaper).

[wereotter]

Ninja's "party utility" is already factored in. If you think that jobs with utility should do less damage, then yes: Ninja, Dragoon and Samurai should all have higher rDPS than Monk (and Reaper).

rDPS is where the jobs should be more or less even. If you have a job like ninja have identical personal DPS to a job like samurai or monk but also have party buffs every 60 seconds, then you end up in a spot where no one brings jobs without utility because you end up doing less damage. That's where we were in heavensward, and it lead to certain jobs just not being played due to the total lack of utility for the Alexander raids.

Ninja should have lower personal damage than all the other four melee because it's the one that also buffs the entire party's output every 60 seconds compared to reaper, monk, and dragoon only doing that every 120 seconds.

[rewd]

rDPS is where the jobs should be more or less even. If you have a job like ninja have identical personal DPS to a job like samurai or monk but also have party buffs every 60 seconds, then you end up in a spot where no one brings jobs without utility because you end up doing less damage. That's where we were in heavensward, and it lead to certain jobs just not being played due to the total lack of utility for the Alexander raids.

Ninja should have lower personal damage than all the other four melee because it's the one that also buffs the entire party's output every 60 seconds compared to reaper, monk, and dragoon only doing that every 120 seconds.

You are trying to explain what personal DPS and rDPS are to people that perfectly know already and have been talking about it in the last few posts, while you keep contradicting yourself and having some misconceptions on top of it. You should also pay more attention to the comments you reply to, because whenever people specifically mention rDPS, you start talking about personal damage like in this case.

[silentwindfr]

you want odd change, did you check the SAM one?

- Hakaze Potency has been increased from 150 to 180.
- Jinpu Combo potency has been increased from 250 to 280.
- Shifu Combo potency has been increased from 250 to 280.

because of Meikyo Shisui you don't use that much this skill meaning this buff will have a partial impact on the dps of the SAM

- Ogi Namikiri Potency has been increased from 800 to 900.
- Kaeshi: Namikiri Potency has been increased from 1,200 to 1,350.

this skill have a 2 minutes windows, it was already super strong, i don't see the point to increase more this one... it was already possible to do a 100k damage with this 2 in critDH, why buff something that happend on every two minutes?

don't get me wrong i'm happy that SAM was buffed, but honestly, it's still quite lackluster. why the SAM melee combo are still now the weakest of all melee? why we still have a 2 combo that we need to be use every minutes that deal crap damage? but the true question is why sam is still behind other in terms of dps even with this buff. SAM don't have party buff or utility... if is damage is lackluster people will not want to bring him.

[ForteNightshade]

I know about BLM and SAM, but it was not needed to buff them. Just nerf MNK / RPR and we would´ve what has been needed. The current "buff only" mentality makes the content nothing but easier. And the question "what´s their way of balancing" is still in the room. They say that they won´t balance around difficulty, but we pay a range-tax. On the other hand stuff is claimed like above "busy jobs...", while they´re not the busiest. So yeah, the only way why MNK and RPR has to be so powerful is to get ppl into them, or not?!

Every fight has a DPS check and a lot of ppl can´t past P2s enrage even with LB3 and no deaths. They´re just not good players and this patch does a lot to them. Instead of learning to execute their class a bit better, they can rely on huge buffs. It just doesn´t make sense to call something savage then, when they keep making it easier and easier, no matter how irrelevant it might be for top players.

Like it or not, the dev team is pretty adamantly against nerfs largely because people dislike them. Yoshida has frequently said as much. And he isn't entirely wrong either. People will complain far more over nerfs than they will other jobs being buffed around them despite it ultimately achieving the same result. The range tax has nothing to do with difficulty but the devs having a silly notion free mobility actually has any value in this game.

None of these buffs matter to anyone struggling to clear P2S' enrage, which is laughably easy at this stage. For perspective sake, running WAR/PLD or DNC over BRD week 1 required your group to be seeing 50% enrage on the door boss and like sub 1% on the second half. Melee LB3 alone is upwards of 3-4%. If you're still seeing enrage at that point, it's because you have a fundamental misunderstanding of your job or other people in the static do. These buffs aren't going to make a lick of difference for those players.

don't get me wrong i'm happy that SAM was buffed, but honestly, it's still quite lackluster. why the SAM melee combo are still now the weakest of all melee? why we still have a 2 combo that we need to be use every minutes that deal crap damage? but the true question is why sam is still behind other in terms of dps even with this buff. SAM don't have party buff or utility... if is damage is lackluster people will not want to bring him.

Because you're looking at the wrong metric. aDPS matters far more to Samurai than rDPS because it lacks utility. Even with that said, these buffs alone will undoubtedly push it into the meta conversations. Several speed groups are already dropping Reaper for Samurai because it feeds into buffs better, especially now that Dancer will likely eclipse Bard. You're severely underestimating just how strong Samurai is now. It's not leaps above Reaper, but it's very competitive. Anyone refusing a Samurai is... well, naive to put it politely. Dragoon and Ninja are the the fringe melee jobs right now, not Samurai.

[LilyPendragon]

What does nDPS have to do with anything when everyone is looking at this from an rDPS perspective? MCH is bottom tier and the only job in the game with 0 unique utility skills unlike even SAM or BLM who get Third Eye and Manaward.

MCH will also fall behind on scaling into the expansion, both because BRD/DNC raid buffs scale better based on the difference between the highest nDPS jobs from the lowest, and because Reassemble inherently devalues Crit and Direct hit the same way WAR's Inner release does, but without anything like MNK's chakra system to balance it out.

Somebody's gotta be at the bottom. Should it be machinist? I don't know, but a job will invariably end up being at the bottom of the pile.

[silentwindfr]

Because you're looking at the wrong metric. aDPS matters far more to Samurai than rDPS because it lacks utility. Even with that said, these buffs alone will undoubtedly push it into the meta conversations. Several speed groups are already dropping Reaper for Samurai because it feeds into buffs better, especially now that Dancer will likely eclipse Bard. You're severely underestimating just how strong Samurai is now. It's not leaps above Reaper, but it's very competitive. Anyone refusing a Samurai is... well, naive to put it politely. Dragoon and Ninja are the the fringe melee jobs right now, not Samurai.

like i have said in another post, this change don't increase this much the damage of the samurai, even if buff affect well the samurai, the thing is someone with more party buff will have more impact, reaper in a sense is still stronger and monk same. the increase must be around 3-4% more damage, what is too lackluster for justify the samurai in a group. don't forget that we talk about in average not for the best of the best with BiS. honestly the buff is odd and like said clumsy.

we must remember that samurai bring only dps to the group while still being a melee... that are affected by positional and such. i have said in another post, human nature always search what is easier and faster, in this sense samurai place in a raid is not the most logical choice. a monk will be more potent and usefull.

[Stasya]

The only thing i got from 6.08 patch notes as sam only player is that its good that i leveled up squadron.... since its easy to level monk to 50 with them. Not to mention sam bis is like same as monk bis. Thanks SE i guess. No i dont want sam to be "toxic" no buff top rdps class but that far behind to the point it looks like at dragoon level (which is far behind aswell) of rdps. No point to play sam other some niche speed kills.

[SJWhat]

Somebody's gotta be at the bottom. Should it be machinist? I don't know, but a job will invariably end up being at the bottom of the pile.

It may sound selfish to say, but MCH should never be at the back of the pack on the virtue of it being a selfish DPS job. If it does not bring damage then it brings nothing a BRD/DNC does and more. This has more to do with the Range Role being flawed.