P1N Warrior solo kill

[ssunny2008]

snip

I don´t know if you misunderstood my point or if you´ve a curios perspective on the current game.

I´m not asking for noodle damage. If it stays like it is, but tanks wouldn´t be so strong, then the overall balancing for incoming damage would be fine. DPS / Healers would still die to a 2nd aoe or so, but tanks wouldn´t sit on 5 stacks meanwhile playing yolo. That DPS would be able to survive those 2-3 autohits wouldn´t be a bad thing either. If they play it well, the healer is able to keep them alive, if they use their personal defs... why not?! It would be a thing for savage atleast. Normal content need to hit way more of course. But again, if they exeggerate it to compete with the current tank scaling, everything on healers / DPS will become useless and they couldn´t survive any shit without a good tank. This will cause a lot of cries about bad tanks, longer dungeons etc... I´m not even talking about "get ride of their tools", i´m talking about several mechanics / aoes should´ve a real impact even on tanks.
That tanks should be able to survive tankbusters and autohits when played correctly, of course... that´s why they have their tools. But if tanks survive any shit caused by tons of passive defensive stats? No way... armor-penetration would be a great thing on raidwides and groundpuddles. They shouldn´t have 5 or more "get out of the jail" cards while ignoring any mechanics out there. Tanks should pay the same as DPS and healer when they missplay stuff.

I don´t get your point with WAR´s single target heal... You do know about BW (RI)??? You don´t even need a healer in savage if you´re a warrior who use his defs correctly. This is a joke.


Of course such tanks nerfs + more hardhitting bosses wouldn´t change the healer gameplay drastically. But what do you actually want? Of course healer should´ve more than 1 button to spam, but their core job should be healing. Babysitting a tank or the group should be your job, not just using some aoe off-heals every 30s while spamming glare or other DPS tools the rest of the fight. And if GCD healing is a bad way to play as healer, i would recommend a DPS class, because the core-gameplay won´t change much as long as ogcd healing is that big of a deal.

So how about random damage across the group? More dispells once again? How about real ressources to care about? Maybe even less spammable aoe-heals to give "on point" and single-target heal, yes even DPS defs more impact?

A SGE could work around heat for example. Let´s say if you hold the heat between 30-80, you have automatically more spellspeed. If you overheat to 80+, your skills will automatically crit, but you need to cool down and can´t use anything but a cooling-skill until the heat resetted. It would be something to optimize, to take care about and to make use of when needed for healing / DPS checks thx to 100% crits.

A short idea, but would such stuff make healing more attractive to play around? Of course with 2-3 more DPS skills and not just ogcd and insta-healing... or would it just last in the same crying about "maintaining enoch, GL, whatever"???


Just some other damage skills and harder hits wouldn´t solve anything in my eyes. The game forces a static rotation or simply "burst-skills into raidbuffs" too much. On top the fights are way too static to play with the strict timings, so any job will do the same thing at the same time over and over again. If healers would´ve something to take care about, if tanks wouldn´t be so insane strong, and if fights would´ve more random mechanics, debuffs and damage, then things would look way different. But that´s just a dream, which will never happen. Atleast P3s goes a bit into the right direction with its fast procedure and DPS which have to take care about something finally.

[ssunny2008]

Yep, this topic has been full of it. It deflates their argument a bit when it needs to be supported by blatant lies and extreme exaggeration.

This is a blatant hyperbole.

Try playing as WAR and not needing healer support in 2S and 3S. Not gonna happen.

It´s possible and no, it´s not exaggeration. It has even been a thing in the latest SHB raidtier when BW wasn´t that hard buffed. None of the fights, not even E12s needed any healer support on a warrior. All what you had to do is to time your stuff correctly and its the same thing now. P2s is definately possible with a 25s BW and 60s Equi. P3s might be somehow harder, maybe not 100% possible, but it´s still laugable how easy and good it works to carry yourself even against tankbusters.
My main-choice as tank has been WAR from begin, so yeah... and my heal is even always like "Could you play WAR?", because she don´t have to take care for me unless i say a word and can greed for more damage then, meanwhile i´m completely bored since the broken tankchanges in SHB happened.

[Absimiliard]

Speaking of exaggerations.

[Axious]

Explain how it’s better when EW nascent is maxed at 10% heal. While ShB nascent capped at 25%?

EW nascent if you’re overpower combining. Roughly 3-5%. Decimate spamming roughly 6-8%. Inner chaos and Primal rend roughly 9-10%.

[Shurrikhan]

Explain how it’s better when EW nascent is maxed at 10% heal. While ShB nascent capped at 25%?

Neither has a "cap". It's just heal potency. The largest single GCD of single-target healing you could do in ShB was 670 via Inner Chaos (using IC's post-potency-squish numbers). Inner Chaos now does 600.
Fell Cleave, meanwhile, would do ~253 outside of IR or ~473 within IR. It now always does 400.
For sake of context, your lowest hit, Heavy Slash would previously have done 100p of healing; it now deals 400p, same as anything else other than Inner Chaos / Chaotic Cyclone.

The ST floor was raised tremendously, but the ceiling fell by only ~19% at most (2759 potency vs. 2400, or 2984 vs. 2400 if you include Onslaught and Upheaval). In AoE, both the floor and ceiling increased, since you have no AoE skill that deals over 800 relative potency per target. That "per target hit" clause, causing AoE healing to scale akin to ST throughput times target count instead of akin to AoE's damage itself, is what makes modern Nascent/Bloodwhetting so broken. In ST, an issue would come down to simple tuning; in AoE, it's procedurally busted.

[ssunny2008]

Neither has a "cap". It's just heal potency.

That is very detailed so. But how do you get on the number 2759? I don't get it right now...


Just wanted to add, BW might have a slightly lower potency than before, but ppl shouldn't forget about the buffs. We've 10%dmg reduction, an additonal barrier 400 potency worth. On top the duration for heal got incresaed from 6s to 8s.

[Kabooa]

That is very detailed so. But how do you get on the number 2759? I don't get it right now...


Just wanted to add, BW might have a slightly lower potency than before, but ppl shouldn't forget about the buffs. We've 10%dmg reduction, an additonal barrier 400 potency worth. On top the duration for heal got incresaed from 6s to 8s.

2 Inner Chaos + 1 IR Fell Cleave + 1 IR Upheaval + 1 IR Onslaught. Divide the total by 2.

If I recall correctly this translated into about 120,000 healing out of a health pool of about 190,000. (+5% for party bonus) Roughly 63-65% of a warrior's maximum health, but you only got literally one of these windows per two minutes out of the potential 5 nascent windows you actually had. Checking a quick log... looks like about 80k inner chaos and 45k fell cleave with a 17k upheaval, but those are likely during buff windows - we'll use those numbers anyways just so we can illustrate how small the single target nerf really was, so the previous number is about correct.

Current nascent is approximately 31-32% of your maximum health per window. 22-24% when you take into account overhealing for the first hit so it's up for the buster. (But you can arguably add the shield into that for the total.) Given that the previous window was also all direct criticals, this nascent can still critical for up to 50-60% more effectiveness, and if you really wanted to, you could burn your offensive cooldowns to guarantee it, but you really have no reason to.

Old nascent also had a much lower coefficient when scaling AoE scenarios, a lower coefficient when healing allies with it, and far less mitigation attached to it for the warrior and ally both.

[Mekhana]

As long healers remain green DPS my honest opinion they will remain unappreciated. The parse meta needs to go.

As for solo warrior I'm not surprised. Its been clear for ages the developers don't play tanks or healers.

When they decide who's tanking or healing for testing its likely the people that draw the short stick or arrived late.

Edit: Just realized this video came out the same day as the patch. Who wants to bet its going to stay exactly this way for months? Either that or they change the boss that will just make things harder for everyone instead?

[RyuDragnier]

I have a sneaking suspicion this clear will cement in the dev team's mind that they have to nerf Bloodwhetting. They'll probably reduce the cure potency from 400 to 300 to make it easier on themselves, then see how well WAR performs after that.

[Kabooa]

I have a sneaking suspicion this clear will cement in the dev team's mind that they have to nerf Bloodwhetting. They'll probably reduce the cure potency from 400 to 300 to make it easier on themselves, then see how well WAR performs after that.

I actually disagree. The P1N clear is frankly not the reasoning I would use were I in their shoes. It's memey and dumb, but at the end of the day, meh.

My primary issue is target scaling. We effectively cannot (or rather, shouldn't) have encounters that feature long standing multiple entities that can be attacked at the same time. Prior, the Warrior had a deadzone of effectiveness for Nascent where 3 targets were just a slight gain in healing efficiency while 4 was perhaps maybe 20% better than whopping a single target during a nascent window.

This is no longer the case.

None of the other tanks have target scaling in their added healing capabilities, so to maintain parity and keep tanks within similar effectiveness to one another, we effectively have to remove pieces from the table of encounter design. That's my issue. Encounter design is what keeps our end-game engaging, and the design narrows due to a need to keep jobs within a role within a sane band of effectiveness to each other. There is currently nothing sane about multi-target Nascent, which is why the only nerf to tank sustain that, in my opinion, has no room for negotiation is target scaling for Bloodwhetting.

Strong as it is in single target, it's still within that sane band of performance.