Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
I wasn't saying those abilities specifically are being held down by TBN, but that DRK's kit is leaning heavily on TBN as a catch-all. Those abilities just happen to be clear weak points in the kit.
How else, exactly, is one to read "'everything DRK is giving up to have [TBN]'" that doesn't include those things --despite having already been had, in former iterations, alongside TBN-- being sacrificed because of TBN?

But alright, if the "They won't change X skill because of TBN" narrative is insane to you, I hope we never hear "We didn't need Y because TBN" in this thread again.
Point to any case where that was said on the basis of TBN as the present skill and its given capacity, rather than as a design or button?

Hard not to wonder "Hmm, now why didn't DRK get anything that measured up to those?"
Sure. But if your whole point is that TBN isn't even as powerful as the pre-82 on-demands, it's sure as hell not going to be a reasonable answer to that question, even if ignoring that DRK had its highest ever amounts of self-sustain in the very expansion that gave you TBN and had its most extreme amounts of dungeon mitigation+healing relative to other tanks, again, in an expansion with TBN.

And remember, until Yoshi-P says, the narrative that it has anything to do with TBN being just that good is "literally not sane."
Correct. Previous expansions have already proven the TBN can coexist with far more self-sustain, with relative power levels wherein Holmgang isn't just by far and away better than Living Dead, and can seem plenty balanced even in a world where Paladin, a competitor, had zero self-sustain without damage loss. So why the hell would you choose it, the one unchanged element that wasn't considered overpowered even in those far more DRK-favoring contexts as the reason that DRK now lacks what it previously had (right alongside TBN)?