Dark Knight Megathread

[Dracosavarian]

Since Math was asked for earlier...

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5778466

I very much doubt my feelings on TBN will ever change. It's a really, really, really good shield against single hit Tankbusters with no real follow up. I don't dislike the skill. I think it's unique to Drk and should stay, as I feel it is a part of it's identity now. But it definitely needs some tweaks.

Where it starts to really falter in my opinion is when you are getting hit with a Tankbuster that repeatedly strikes you over and over again. Or, in a dungeon where you have multiple packs ( 3 + groups worth of pulls ) hammering on you over a period of time. TBN on average breaks on the first strike of most multi hit TB's I've encountered. Or breaks extremely quickly in a massive dungeon pull. ( Usually within 2-3 seconds avg if I am doing a massive pull. )

A shield that crumbles in one GCD, cannot resist further hits, as it no longer exists. And Oblation as a level 82 skill is a pale comparison to HoC, Holy Shelltron, and Bloodwhetting. Even when Oblation is paired with TBN, it still will not hold up in comparison to those newly forged skills.


How to fix it is a conundrum all it's own.

Personally, I want TBN removed as the primary source fueling Dark Arts. I'd like to see Dark Arts revamped and other skills be used to fuel it as a resource, to keep Dark Knight's rotation more frequent instead of one, massive, overwhelming burst, and then a boring period where all we do is 1,2,3 until we have resources again.

Remove it's tie to fueling the damage, and maybe then other things can be added onto it to help bump it up a bit.

As for Oblation itself...I think the issue with why they placed it at 82 is because it can be slapped on another party member. Or so I would say, if it weren't for the fact that the same can also be done with Heart of Corundum.

6.08 is supposed to be a job patch based on what has been said of late. I didn't see any references to Dark Knight...but...am hoping they correct some of the major problems with the job. We'll see. Time will tell I guess.

[Garlan]

I don't think 6.08 will change DRK too much. If we are lucky, we might get a QoL charge system for Blood Weapon, but I think that is the best we can hope for. DRK will absolutely get altered in future patches, but PLD and DNC are in more dire straits than DRK is atm, so resources will be going to them first.

I can totally see Oblation getting a buff down the line, and if the (respectful) outcry is perpetual enough, I think LD getting adjusted to not be so detrimental isn't off the table either.

[Dracosavarian]

I don't think 6.08 will change DRK too much. If we are lucky, we might get a QoL charge system for Blood Weapon, but I think that is the best we can hope for. DRK will absolutely get altered in future patches, but PLD and DNC are in more dire straits than DRK is atm, so resources will be going to them first.

I can totally see Oblation getting a buff down the line, and if the (respectful) outcry is perpetual enough, I think LD getting adjusted to not be so detrimental isn't off the table either.

Yeah, I agree that you are likely correct. But, as you said, even if it's a few QoL changes such as charges for Blood Weapon, or slight increases to Oblation, I'll take it in the short term.

I'm just concerned that even with as Vocal as we have been...that our perception of the issues doesn't match up with what the developers believe to be the problems. I'm firmly entrenched in the camp that Dark Knight needs an overhaul, or a complete rework. It's identity, I feel, needs to be re-established so it's not Warrior 2.0 ( Now with Zero Calories! )

Dark Knight right now has three issues that I see as being the primary problems with it.

1: Lack of Identity - Especially compared to Heavensward, where it was a Tank that strode with Confidence into a storm of blood and fury and used the pain the enemy inflicted upon it to fuel it's abilities in reprisal against them.

2: Lack of Impact - I personally despise ( Nay, hate and absolutely loathe, especially in comparison to how awesome Fell Cleave looks and feels ) Bloodspiller's animation, and feel the animation has little to no impact, and think Carve and Spit and even Souleater has more OOMPH to them. Salt and Darkness doesn't feel enjoyable to press, has no real impactful sound effects and if you blink, you'll miss it's effects. And Shadowbringer flies by so bloody fast you can't even really enjoy using it. Especially in comparison to Primal Rend. As some examples. Put bluntly, quite a few of these abilities do not feel " Fun " to press the button for them.

3: Lack of Sustain - Two primary causes - Lack of healing ( Only Souleater + Abyssal Drain ) and defensive abilities that have niche scenario uses ( Looking at you Dark Mind )

I could go on...but, if they address those three problems, I think we'll be in a much better place.

[Crater]

Since Math was asked for earlier...

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5778466

This entire post is math in the context of TBN taking a single tankbuster versus HoC taking a single tankbuster. And it is correct, in that on a per-use basis, TBN is generally weaker (ranging from 'marginally' to 'considerably' depending on the specific situation) against tankbusters than the other tanks' equivalent skills. But we aren't having a discussion about TBN vs HoC/HS in the context of tankbusters.

The math that people are failing to provide is the math that shows TBN being less effective in dungeon pulls.

[Vatom]

wrong. it's tied in to the job quest of lvl 70 DRK. I highly doubt, given that and JP's feelings towards TBN, that the skill is going anywhere.

Didn't they adjust SMN quest to help fit the new rework

I say how they are going with things lately anything is on the table
The lore or story line excuse isn't really going to fly now
but with the neglect of LD its makes me very pessimistic of the out come

[MagiusNecros]

We will see with 6.08. I feel like they were really avoiding talking about Tank/Healer changes at all. And their radio talk only added in that extra changes will be made even if not listed damage control comment likely because the JP playerbase is about as negative as other regions are.

It's a miracle they even mentioned a DPS buff for PLD.

[Garlan]

I feel like it bears repeating that TBN doesn't drastically need changing all that much. Endwalker introduced skills to the other tanks that dramatically shortened the lead DRK had over the other tanks in the short CD department, and its own addition, Oblation, isn't particularly exciting. TBN is a skill from 2 expansions ago, and has lore and resource costs attached to it. Oblation has no such thematics or resource limitations, and is in a better position to be refined to enhance DRK's kit than TBN is.

TBN has an established spot in our defensive rotation, and changing it too much can have unforeseen ramifications is a fix is ill-implemented. As mentioned earlier, TBN is phenomenally worse in mitigating dungeon trash damage than it is against tankbusters, and Oblation can be altered to shore up this weakness rather than the inverse.

[MagiusNecros]

Could swap the effects of TBN and Arcane Crest in a way.

Give TBN the heal. Give AC break a Harvest Moon Proc.

Done deal. As a 90 Reaper I would not be sad. At all.

That just leaves more sustain, Blood Weapon and LD.

Blood Weapon and Delirium need to be one skill.

LD needs changed. You've had 6 years. Off the couch pls.

If you can increase Superbolide to 10 seconds and even worse Holmgang to 10 seconds. You have no excuse.

[Undeadfire]

We will see with 6.08. I feel like they were really avoiding talking about Tank/Healer changes at all. And their radio talk only added in that extra changes will be made even if not listed damage control comment likely because the JP playerbase is about as negative as other regions are.

They never release re-works on a small balance patch, never did. SE aren't gonna super buff a job just to help it with Dungeons, when it's already powerful enough in Savage/Ultimate raids, you have to consider other content.

It's a miracle they even mentioned a DPS buff for PLD.

Not really, it's to be expected.

Plds DPS between GNB/DRK is huge, too low for early week Savage/Ultimate, Pld doesn't need any ability buffs, it really needs help with it's DPS. It's almost on Nins meme 5.0 DPS tier, Nin was so bad for Savage week 1 progression back in that time SE had to super buff it.

[RyuDragnier]

I feel like it bears repeating that TBN doesn't drastically need changing all that much. Endwalker introduced skills to the other tanks that dramatically shortened the lead DRK had over the other tanks in the short CD department, and its own addition, Oblation, isn't particularly exciting. TBN is a skill from 2 expansions ago, and has lore and resource costs attached to it. Oblation has no such thematics or resource limitations, and is in a better position to be refined to enhance DRK's kit than TBN is.

TBN has an established spot in our defensive rotation, and changing it too much can have unforeseen ramifications is a fix is ill-implemented. As mentioned earlier, TBN is phenomenally worse in mitigating dungeon trash damage than it is against tankbusters, and Oblation can be altered to shore up this weakness rather than the inverse.

Dark Mind can also be shored up. Give it the Addle treatment where it migitates half the normal amount for physicals (meaning 10% here). There, we have another defensive we can use regardless of content, and the DRK playerbase will be thankful because a situational cooldown is no longer situational.

They never release re-works on a small balance patch, never did. SE aren't gonna super buff a job just to help it with Dungeons, when it's already powerful enough in Savage/Ultimate raids, you have to consider other content.

I always hate this logic of "it's powerful enough". Yes, it has half a percentage more damage than GNB with a far worse kit...which isn't a good look, when you can take GNB and get the better kit AND the damage.