Zenos is... [big fat spoily]

[TheMightyMollusk]

Yeah, but he also helped saved the Universe. When you think about it, he killed way less people than Emet-Selch/Ascians and Venat.

He didn't care about saving the universe. He cared about getting us past other distractions so we could face him fair and square. And being a killer at a smaller scale doesn't make him not a killer.

People are different. These are actually some of the things I like about him. lol

So.....you like that he's a mass-murdering sociopath?

[Elysidelphi]

Yup. I love batsh!t crazy characters, epic battles, monsters, gore, etc, when it comes to games/movies. Zenos is the kind of character I always get obsessed with. I appreciate his last few "good deeds" because they were different and fun but I hope they won't go overboard with it when he comes back. I'm glad he stayed true to himself and did everything to get all my attention for our final fight. He should be my WoL's crazy murderous BFF. Like I always say: people like different things.

Hey Erinellza, I kept wanting to say this to you (hope you see this message): since you're a Zenos fan and would like to see him back, we have a Discord group/server dedicated to Zenos fans that you might enjoy. We like to talk about Zenos and theorycraft about him and ways in which he could return and affect the story going forward. It's a nice place to keep in touch with like-minded people while we wait to see what happens in the MSQ. Let me know if you would like to join!

Oh and anyone else who likes Zenos and would like to see him return is also welcome to join! We'd love to hear your ideas and theorycraft together and keep the hope alive!

[Elysidelphi]

Sure, that sounds like fun! I'd enjoy a place where people don't think that I'm crazy for loving Zenos. :P

Yay! Here's a link, hope it works for you! (please let me know if it doesn't work so I can try again)

https://discord.gg/P8A269fy

[Faafetai]

So.....you like that he's a mass-murdering sociopath?

Did we all forget most of the people he was murdering or subjugating were also not good. Not saying it is right or what he was doing wasn't bad, but he stated he wished to give them adversity so that they would grow stronger and learn from the brutality. Many give Zenos alot of crap, but at least in all things he was honest at least in jp voice acting. For some reason many will say Zenos is bad, but who was the one stoning their own people? Even throughout ARR people who are fighting to get ala mihgo back try to kill you, disrespect you, and make the dumbest untactical decisions possible, it did not make me sympathetic to their cause. Gaius called them savages and literally right after they act like savages. Really breaking the stereotype by killing one of your own people.

If you pick the option “I don’t want your help” he even flat out says he’d rather not give it because he doesn’t care anything about that kind of stuff.

He is a male Tsundere of course he would say he doesn't care. I almost here the baka with over exaggerated blush on his face.

Yup. I love batsh!t crazy characters, epic battles, monsters, gore, etc, when it comes to games/movies. Zenos is the kind of character I always get obsessed with. I appreciate his last few "good deeds" because they were different and fun but I hope they won't go overboard with it when he comes back. I'm glad he stayed true to himself and did everything to get all my attention for our final fight. He should be my WoL's crazy murderous BFF. Like I always say: people like different things.

He is a cutie! He is so sweet and does things that may not be 'the good guy way' of doing things but hell if he isn't doing things directly from the heart. He literally sucked up Shinryu draining it's power, he stopped black rose single handedly, he had me at his last words in the royal menagerie. I picked the option to wish to just speak with him for longer even if he didn't have much time left. His last words 'you are my first most cherished friend, and my enemy' just killed me. I haven't gotten to endwalker awesome yet but just from shadowbringer and stormblood he is one of my favorite characters. I can't wait to get to some of the parts you described because I know for a fact he was helping us as he always does, maybe without knowing it, or just passes it off as 'no of course I didn't do that'.

I think they mentioned something a while back, but it is hard to find that Zenos was treated very poorly possibly due to having magical affinity which was why the experiments of the echo worked so well on him, he may have even had the echo before all of them, but didn't awaken to it until later. I have to replay through much of the story when I am finished with it because there is so much I missed or do not remember in the long journey. I was so freaking happy he body snatched of course into an elezen with the WoL track record crushing on elezen seems the norm. Alot of people miss the subtle dialogue within the story or understand Zenos' motives. His motive is simple and honest, he wishes to finally feel fullfilled in a life he has only known pain or nothingness. WoL finally gave him something to live for, and I truly hope that poster they teased all the way back during the fanfestival of 'Akatsuki' with Zenos and Estinien comes true.

On a side note going through post shadowbringer and even post stormblood before why does our WoL always look so angry when Gaius shows up? Is it because of msq roulette? Because he really didn't do anything that bad, unless....oh it may be because tecnically we are an acian and he is hunting them down? I don't know I just find the reactions towards certain characters

[TheMightyMollusk]

Did we all forget most of the people he was murdering or subjugating were also not good. Not saying it is right or what he was doing wasn't bad, but he stated he wished to give them adversity so that they would grow stronger and learn from the brutality. Many give Zenos alot of crap, but at least in all things he was honest at least in jp voice acting. For some reason many will say Zenos is bad, but who was the one stoning their own people? Even throughout ARR people who are fighting to get ala mihgo back try to kill you, disrespect you, and make the dumbest untactical decisions possible, it did not make me sympathetic to their cause. Gaius called them savages and literally right after they act like savages. Really breaking the stereotype by killing one of your own people.

Have you ever heard the phrase, "Two wrongs don't make a right"? I'm not gonna even pretend to defend the attitudes of other characters (especially the almost cartoonishly unfriendly Ala Mhigans) because, frankly, that's an entirely different topic, but if your only defense is "other people are bad too", you really need to rethink your argument.

[Faafetai]

Have you ever heard the phrase, "Two wrongs don't make a right"? I'm not gonna even pretend to defend the attitudes of other characters (especially the almost cartoonishly unfriendly Ala Mhigans) because, frankly, that's an entirely different topic, but if your only defense is "other people are bad too", you really need to rethink your argument.

Yes and that phrase is highly unrealistic,(two wrongs do not make a right) and always tends to be used against people who are attempting to defend themselves. If they dish it out than refuse to accept the consequences when brought down upon them. The world is not black and white, and no one spouting that phrase usually takes it to heart, it is only done so they could stick the knife in your back and make the person they have harmed to think twice about defending themselves. It is used as manipulation by many not good people.

In this case no I am not defending his actions, but it gives his character depth, realism, and an explanation however illogical. The depth of the mind is never simple. When someone is abused for years and treated as if they are nothing from birth they could rise above it or become which what they hate. He was becoming what he hated, but it no longer mattered, nothing did. No one is perfect, and even if he did many things to help us it does not make his mistakes excusable, but many of the characters in ffxiv have done thing whether it be terrible, mildly annoying, extremely annoying to the degree of putting innocent people in danger because of delusions of grandeur, or just not thinking of the consequences in their negligence.

In my meaning many defend entirely idiot decisions other characters make (some not even giving many things a second thought) even if it causes others death, but someone who is clearly informing others of their intentions is the 'worst character' or 'extremely boring'. At least you know what to expect from him, and many of his decisions led many to have less terrible lives if you could believe it. If Zenos wasn't there in Ala Mihgo and in control of Doma even if he was petty, a brat, and on a power trip I think it may have been done to prevent worse but at the same time none of it mattered to him. Just imagine if Varis has control of those nations rather than Zenos. Necessary evil, but entrusted to a broken person who never had a chance to grow. He was a shell of a person until we came into the picture to throw down some smack on his large booty. There was also alot that wasn't even done by him, but their own people against their own people Yotsuyu and Crania Lupi. It becomes a chain of abuse than it runs rampant, and no one will stand up for themselves, or just do not care anymore. They feel beyond redemption so might as well sort it out in the afterlife and wait until someone finally grants you the sweet relief of death.(there is also alot to unpack as to why Zenos didn't stand up the Varis sooner, if Zenos was the one doing much of the killing, or if he was just manipulating others who also didn't stand up for themselve. It is just a mess regardless and none of the groups are in the right)

I also like that he showed the scions they needed to step up and actually do something rather than stay complacent as they usually would be. I can see why he was doing what he was doing, when you care for nothing and have nothing to lose the lives around you would seem equally as worthless as was how he was treated all of his life. It is sad, depressing, depth, not everyone has to understand it, but it is such good writing. Mentioning the things he may have done to squeak in some good through the bad makes me believe somewhere in there is someone worth listening to.

At the risk of sounding like I'm preaching, I don't think it's an English speaker thing. There really are people who find "damaged goods" not attractive.

That is very sad, but understandable I don't expect everyone to wish to put in the effort, if that makes sense. He has some very heavy baggage and alot was self inflicted.

The guy flew across the great expanse just to be reunited with us. Only one other creature in the world of FFXIV has braved and accomplished such a feat: Midgarsormr. However, for the latter, it took nearly everything out of him. Zenos, even though aided a bit by the mothercrystal, made the journey in less time and ready to fight for you. When nearly all of your hope is stripped from you, and doubt starts to set in; he busts through space and time and restores your doubt by being in complete disbelief that you have not finished off your prey. This is not only poetic on a ridiculous level, it is also extremely romantic. In his own weird and twisted way.
Probably would have dropped my pants, honestly. But he wanted to fight to the death instead.

Midgarsormr is and will forever be best dad dragon. Also this entire post exactly >//< It would have to be ripped off like those button pants that have shorts underneath basketball players wear for dramatic effect!

[Gemina]

He is a cutie! He is so sweet and does things that may not be 'the good guy way' of doing things but hell if he isn't doing things directly from the heart.

The guy flew across the great expanse just to be reunited with us. Only one other creature in the world of FFXIV has braved and accomplished such a feat: Midgarsormr. However, for the latter, it took nearly everything out of him. Zenos, even though aided a bit by the mothercrystal, made the journey in less time and ready to fight for you. When nearly all of your hope is stripped from you, and doubt starts to set in; he busts through space and time and restores your doubt by being in complete disbelief that you have not finished off your prey. This is not only poetic on a ridiculous level, it is also extremely romantic. In his own weird and twisted way.

Probably would have dropped my pants, honestly. But he wanted to fight to the death instead.

[Haruka_R]

He is a cutie! He is so sweet and does things that may not be 'the good guy way' of doing things but hell if he isn't doing things directly from the heart. He literally sucked up Shinryu draining it's power, he stopped black rose single handedly, he had me at his last words in the royal menagerie. I picked the option to wish to just speak with him for longer even if he didn't have much time left. His last words 'you are my first most cherished friend, and my enemy' just killed me.

The guy flew across the great expanse just to be reunited with us. Zenos, even though aided a bit by the mothercrystal, made the journey in less time and ready to fight for you. When nearly all of your hope is stripped from you, and doubt starts to set in; he busts through space and time and restores your doubt by being in complete disbelief that you have not finished off your prey. This is not only poetic on a ridiculous level, it is also extremely romantic. In his own weird and twisted way.

Probably would have dropped my pants, honestly. But he wanted to fight to the death instead.

Ergo, Zenos loves me. <3