Yoshi-P Statement on Player Feedback

[Ryaz]

"Be nice to the developers," Yoshi-P would say, and give them a whalloping. No matter how many times we scolded him.

Also, this thread seems to have derailed some time ago.

[Rinhi]

Also, this thread seems to have derailed some time ago.

it derailed with the creation because it's about JP players mailing knives and death threats to the devs and not about players criticizing or complaining about class design decisions

[Darksummoner]

This thread has derailed off the tracks and straight down the cliff into the lake......../shaking my head.

[Lauront]

it derailed with the creation because it's about JP players mailing knives and death threats to the devs and not about players criticizing or complaining about class design decisions

Yup, exactly. So people, so don't do that and we're golden.

[kpxmanifesto]

You will never see those pushing for "you need to be X before doing Y" using that logic for praising/endorsing something.

I know. It's a huge double standard.

[DPZ2]

You will never see those pushing for "you need to be X before doing Y" using that logic for praising/endorsing something.

Actually, it's "You need to understand something basic about X before throwing shade at X".

You can't complain that SE isn't using AWS for its servers without knowing if that's even a possibility in the first place. In that case, if you don't understand why white-box Intel servers may not work, you won't understand why suggesting they use them is ridiculous.

[Krotoan]

it derailed with the creation because it's about JP players mailing knives and death threats to the devs and not about players criticizing or complaining about class design decisions

Questions:
Do you really think people who would mail knives and give death threats about a video game can be reasoned with?

Is it so farfetched to believe that a statement about verbal abuse and how it's not useful as feedback an can actually be harmful to future creativity is about people verbally abusing developers in general?


I'm aware a lot of people are taking it to extremes (as the forum always does) with "NO CRITICISM!" and "ABUSE CAN BE WARRANTED".. but .. I'd say the founding statement is at least partially asking for people to be less vitriolic in their criticisms or at least not call into question developers creds and dedication.

[Mortex]

The simple problem I have is that they tell us they play final fantasy themself but then you have the most baffling things in job design and balancing ever. Like nin having so little dmg and not making both raijin stay as a buff even when you use another weapon skill just for them too kill a smooth rotation we’re I actually lost all bunshin stacks with good abilities.

Or monk even though it has the best dmg for meeles is forced to play a double solar opener too fit phantom rush in the 2 minute window.

Then you have samurai were it’s actually not even possible to fit all new abilities plus two meiko uses in the opener without under 2 seconds skill speed

And this first savage raid tier has so many undertuned jobs it’s pretty insane (pretty sure if you take the worst ones in a group and try too beat p4s week one im pretty sure you need to play perfect to clear the dps check)

Dancer, SMN , NIN, PLD, MCH, Sam and blm (imagine being a selfish dps job and dealing less then monk and reaper without buffs). And then there is bard/reaper/monk/red mage who go absolute bananas and are taken in 99% of the cases and are better in all aspects

[Connor]

I can’t speak to the JP side of things, and it does sound like things are pretty drastic over there. Not that it’s any kind of excuse or justification, but I have to wonder whether someone pushed to do something so drastic (e.g mailing death threats to SE) doesn’t have some kind of serious mental health issues. I’d like to hope that taking action like that isn’t something that’s ‘common’ in any country

But, is it really such a surprise that the NA/EU forums are filled to the brim with shit? I don’t understand why they’d go through the trouble of creating an ‘official forum’ just to leave it completely unmoderated in any way lol. What did they actually expect? Is this a thing in JP forums? They can just post whatever the fuck they want without consequence lol?

Some of the things I see people posting now are so blatantly incendiary, ‘trolling’, aggressive or rude. Even in this post I’ve used wording that was entirely unnecessary. I’m curious at to whether anything will ever happen.

The developers don’t seem to consider feedback from the NA/EU forums, they don’t intend to moderate them in any way, there are no longer any community gm things, and most of the valuable feedback gets buried. At this point they should nuke the whole thing to the ground and drop the pretence that these forums exist for any kind of purpose.

Of course I want to defend the developers, but ultimately, how can I possibly defend someone if they’re hiding behind a curtain and refuse to let me see what’s on the other side. What they’re seeing on my side doesn’t match what I can see in any way whatsoever, but they refuse to acknowledge that we’re seeing things differently (‘you’re just seeing it wrong’).

Naturally, I’m not suggesting supporting abuse or harassment in any way. A post expressing disappointment or frustration can do so without being hurtful to others. But at the same time, with the developers deaf to the players, no moderation on the forums, and the game being designed in a lot of contradictory ways. I.E healers have innumerate ultra-powerful oGCDs, nothing to heal. Tanks have a ton of powerful defensive utility, and no damage for it to really matter. Jobs with very high dps output (e.g Reaper, Bard), provide at least the same amount of party support as jobs with minuscule dps output (e.g Dancer, Summoner). I mean, even silly things like how the game acts like it’s some huge deal to manage dps uptime whilst moving your character, even though every job in the game is shitting out instant-casts, ranged attacks, and mobility moves, like they’re going out of fashion lol. Hell only 1 out of three casters lacks a gap closer, and it technically already has one (you just have to close the gap with a party member instead lol).

None of it makes any sense anymore, and truthfully it’s begun to feel like they don’t want to bother trying to help us understand things

[Krotoan]

The simple problem I have is that they tell us they play final fantasy themself but then you have the most baffling things in job design and balancing ever. Like nin having so little dmg and not making both raijin stay as a buff even when you use another weapon skill just for them too kill a smooth rotation we’re I actually lost all bunshin stacks with good abilities.

Or monk even though it has the best dmg for meeles is forced to play a double solar opener too fit phantom rush in the 2 minute window.

Then you have samurai were it’s actually not even possible to fit all new abilities plus two meiko uses in the opener without under 2 seconds skill speed

And this first savage raid tier has so many undertuned jobs it’s pretty insane (pretty sure if you take the worst ones in a group and try too beat p4s week one im pretty sure you need to play perfect to clear the dps check)

Dancer, SMN , NIN, PLD, MCH, Sam and blm (imagine being a selfish dps job and dealing less then monk and reaper without buffs). And then there is bard/reaper/monk/red mage who go absolute bananas and are taken in 99% of the cases and are better in all aspects

None of that warrants abuse. Those are all very valid complaints about how things work and questions as to what the motivation behind the decisions were that resulted in that system and can be worded as such.

Again, there is no problem with leveling these complaints in a straightforward matter, just don't start your complaint with "are they dumb?". They're not saying don't complain or not to question decisions.

Some of the things I see people posting now are so blatantly incendiary, ‘trolling’, aggressive or rude.

The developers don’t seem to consider feedback from the NA/EU forums, they don’t intend to moderate them in any way, there are no longer any community gm things, and most of the valuable feedback gets buried. At this point they should nuke the whole thing to the ground and drop the pretence that these forums exist for any kind of purpose

As someone who has had posts deleted recently, I can verify someone is watching and reading. While they do not listen to everything we say.. and possibly not even MOST things we say, there are too many changes that line up with popular topics here to think there is NO influence from us.