The current State of Casters 6.05 edition - balancing discussion

[Aikaal]

Huh, did I miss something?

Where did you hear this?

Reddit Post

Basically due to him believing that SAM and BLM have a busy rotation, they'll increase their power. Mind you Black Mage is the lowest cast per minute DPS job in the game right now.

I'm not so sure. It brings that raid buff for melee DPS, melee DPS which are about to get even stronger. And res is always helpful for reclear memes.

I'm not so sure on Speed clear. You,d bring a Reaper, Monk, Bard and then Black Mage. Still, No Summoner to be found.

[Risvertasashi]

I'm not so sure on Speed clear. You,d bring a Reaper, Monk, Bard and then Black Mage. Still, No Summoner to be found.

Specifically for a speed clear/parse run, sure.

But having a usable rez can at least ensure they're welcome in reclear PFs. And specifically for a parse party, they might swap out that black mage for rdm - even if the kill takes a few seconds longer, the raid buff will make the reaper and monk's (and tanks') personal rankings better. Of course, some high end groups would still chase the fastest kill - but, basically, I think there'd be a place to be slightly behind blm in dps and make up for it with the buff.

[Aikaal]

Specifically for a speed clear/parse run, sure.

But having a usable rez can at least ensure they're welcome in reclear PFs. And specifically for a parse party, they might swap out that black mage for rdm - even if the kill takes a few seconds longer, the raid buff will make the reaper and monk's (and tanks') personal rankings better. Of course, some high end groups would still chase the fastest kill - but, basically, I think there'd be a place to be slightly behind blm in dps and make up for it with the buff.

That is true for reclears which is why Summoner sitll have a better representation in P4S boss 2 clears than Black Mages. Because if you bring 1 caster, you'll still go RDM>SMN>BLM and have the SMN keep swift for res during prog/reclears. That still furthers decrease their damage and shows that RDM is overall a better pick. Because no one aint making me believe Phoenix is good support with the heals that you have no control versus Magick Barrier

[Risvertasashi]

Because no one aint making me believe Phoenix is good support with the heals that you have no control versus Magick Barrier

I feel like this is sort of the theme on SMN in general. Looks great on paper, seems like it has a lot of utility and flexibility. But in practical play, you find you have very little flexibility on what to do for that boss jump or add phase and, yeah, the phoenix heals happen when they happen and can only be coincidentally useful.

To the rest of your post - well we know BLM is getting a buff. And, cool, I don't disagree it needs one, but then it's just going to emphasize that SMN will need something else to bring to the party. Feels bad that SMN has to lose DPS to even keep open the possibility of a raise, too.

[Kolsykol]

Reddit Post

Basically due to him believing that SAM and BLM have a busy rotation, they'll increase their power. Mind you Black Mage is the lowest cast per minute DPS job in the game right now.



I'm not so sure on Speed clear. You,d bring a Reaper, Monk, Bard and then Black Mage. Still, No Summoner to be found.

Ah thanks.
I am a bit confused about MNK because MNK is rly strong right now I don't think they need a buff at all.
BLM and DNC tho certainly need it and probably SAM too.

Bit sad I didn't hear about NIN tho but he may have talked about it and it just wasn't mentioned in the Reddit post.

[Risvertasashi]

Ah thanks.
I am a bit confused about MNK because MNK is rly strong right now I don't think they need a buff at all.
BLM and DNC tho certainly need it and probably SAM too.

Bit sad I didn't hear about NIN tho but he may have talked about it and it just wasn't mentioned in the Reddit post.

Hey, one thing that's worth noting is that when he or the dev team talks like this, it's rarely comprehensive. So NIN, WHM, PLD, and other jobs that are hurting may still get some love.

[Aikaal]

Hey, one thing that's worth noting is that when he or the dev team talks like this, it's rarely comprehensive. So NIN, WHM, PLD, and other jobs that are hurting may still get some love.

They also do read the forums and listen to player feedback so my hopium is that this thread trends enough for them to notice what we'd like for changes for Casters.

Kinda repeating myself but I can't stress enough I want them to take back that mobility to give me back the power I lost.

I was a pretty bad Summoner when I did the last Eden tier and I would have done better on Red Mage but I wanted to give it a go knowing I didn't like it, Didn't optimize my rotation and clears like I usually do. Now I do like it and I get that most people hate the new Summoner because its "easier" than Dancer when the reality is optimizing it is just really bad. How many time the game didnt register my Searing Light on the 1st GCD and its just straight up gone for the full opener burst window lol. Well, it definitely feel like a more authentic Summoner but Summoner never needed this amount of mobility.

I just feel if they decide to buff Black Mage and ignore the Summoner situation that I won't play it anymore even if I like it. Actions are often worth a thousand words and if nobody plays Summoner maybe they'll listen and have a dev actually play Summoner and have him hate it like us.

[Risvertasashi]

I'm tired of this "prog caster" bullshit some people are trying to push. Summoner belongs below Red Mage until it requires more than one brain cell to play.

Sigh. Well, surprised we got to page 3 before these people showed up.

They also do read the forums and listen to player feedback so my hopium is that this thread trends enough for them to notice what we'd like for changes for Casters.

Kinda repeating myself but I can't stress enough I want them to take back that mobility to give me back the power I lost.

I was a pretty bad Summoner when I did the last Eden tier and I would have done better on Red Mage but I wanted to give it a go knowing I didn't like it, Didn't optimize my rotation and clears like I usually do. Now I do like it and I get that most people hate the new Summoner because its "easier" than Dancer when the reality is optimizing it is just really bad. How many time the game didnt register my Searing Light on the 1st GCD and its just straight up gone for the full opener burst window lol. Well, it definitely feel like a more authentic Summoner but Summoner never needed this amount of mobility.

I think people really underestimate the mobility of old summoner. Erm, including you, sorry. Remember pre-EW, we got 8 GCDs of pure mobility every minute we could put just about anywhere (did need a few for weaving but still). The exception was going into bahamut, in which case we only got 4 GCDs because we had to hold the other 4 for bahamut, but that was also in addition to other insta-casts and we could always draw out DWT a bit in a worst case, emergency-mobility scenario.

I don't hate the new SMN because it's "easier" or a lot of other such tripe on the forums, like that comment from Azuri there, but I do miss the flexibility the job lost. (Also having a much better titan shield for POTD, lol).

But anyways I'm right there with you on the hopium.

I just feel if they decide to buff Black Mage and ignore the Summoner situation that I won't play it anymore even if I like it. Actions are often worth a thousand words and if nobody plays Summoner maybe they'll listen and have a dev actually play Summoner and have him hate it like us.

Oh, yeah, that curse. The same white mage suffers from. "It's popular so if it's ever optimal, we'll emergency buff the other healers." Summoner may be subject to the same since, yeah, lots of people playing it right now.

And then there was bard. One expac, the most popular DPS. The next, SE was so scared of buffing it out of garbage tier it was least played for over a year...

Let's hope the new summoner doesn't suffer a similar fate.

[Aikaal]

I think people really underestimate the mobility of old summoner. Erm, including you, sorry. Remember pre-EW, we got 8 GCDs of pure mobility every minute we could put just about anywhere (did need a few for weaving but still). The exception was going into bahamut, in which case we only got 4 GCDs because we had to hold the other 4 for bahamut, but that was also in addition to other insta-casts and we could always draw out DWT a bit in a worst case, emergency-mobility scenario.

Mmm, well I did play 1 tier on ShB Summoner and yeah their mobility was just fine. They don't need more. In any case, ShB was balanced but didn't really reflect what people believed to be a real summoner. Now people see the current summoner as a real summoner and they play it. Not only it is casually easy to play but it feels fun.

But yeah, unless I confused my words, I don't think I meant to say that Summoner mobility was bad prior Endwalker. They did improve it in Endwalker which if it's the reason their power was gutted, it's a really bad reason

Let us hope that SMN doesnt suffer from success like WHM but yeah, that's how I see it right now.

[Gruntler]

I'm not so sure on Speed clear. You,d bring a Reaper, Monk, Bard and then Black Mage. Still, No Summoner to be found.

They don't balance around speed clears so that's a moot point.