The current State of Casters 6.05 edition - balancing discussion

[Risvertasashi]

It's actually the reason why I made this thread! I can't help but see them saying Black Mage is busy when they have the lowest cast per minute of all DPS jobs.

Post about cast per minute on jobs.

This aggravtes me that some jobs are just not played by the dev team. Healers definitely do not feel balanced right now. My White Mage is going Astro because of how little White Mage brings.

I have a strong fear that they see issues from how many players play the job. White Mage being the easiest and most played must mean it is played right. Well, Summoner looks super easy and fun to play so it must be fine right...?

As a former healer main and also someone that played bard for some raids back in ShB, believe me I feel it. Well, I hope this gets some support and 6.08 help instead of a bunch of the "BuT It'S mObIlE" (and so should apparently be trash) brigade.

[Anvaire]

As a former healer main and also someone that played bard for some raids back in ShB, believe me I feel it. Well, I hope this gets some support and 6.08 help instead of a bunch of the "BuT It'S mObIlE" (and so should apparently be trash) brigade.

TBH though, I think the mobility argument is heavily flawed. It isnt about a job being Mobile, its about what benefit it brings. On the whole Melee are mobile, and the only issue they face related to mobility (outside of hitting positionals) is when they need to disengage, However, given the sheer size of max range, that seldom happens from what i can see. You can argue that targetability for Ranged classes is always 100%, but there are only a handfull of cases where this actually is a boon for them only. Mobility Alone is such a strange metric to use to determine a jobs DPS.

[Aikaal]

TBH though, I think the mobility argument is heavily flawed. It isnt about a job being Mobile, its about what benefit it brings. On the whole Melee are mobile, and the only issue they face related to mobility (outside of hitting positionals) is when they need to disengage, However, given the sheer size of max range, that seldom happens from what i can see. You can argue that targetability for Ranged classes is always 100%, but there are only a handfull of cases where this actually is a boon for them only. Mobility Alone is such a strange metric to use to determine a jobs DPS.

Yeah, melees are super mobile. The caveat is they have to disengage from mechanics but often strats are found to keep them in melee. So the whole caveat is a strength because they overall deal more damage for that weakness. And boy will they take mechanics if it's to keep uptime and it wont give a damage down or death.

As for Summoner mobility. Yes, they are mobile but why? Why so much mobility? Nobody in the community asked for that. Please give back my hardcasts along with my power. I already have to deal with downtime caveats which is a huge loss most the time and it can be fix with a ludicrous amount of speed. My guess in P2S and I have nothing to prove but with somewhere like 2.28 to 2.29 GCD, you should be able to cast Bahamut after the downtime with all your buffs.

Now, a question for all! Which job would be considered more complicated. The one with the same BiS on all fight or the one with 4 potential BiS gear depending on downtime!

[Risvertasashi]

TBH though, I think the mobility argument is heavily flawed. It isnt about a job being Mobile, its about what benefit it brings. On the whole Melee are mobile, and the only issue they face related to mobility (outside of hitting positionals) is when they need to disengage, However, given the sheer size of max range, that seldom happens from what i can see. You can argue that targetability for Ranged classes is always 100%, but there are only a handfull of cases where this actually is a boon for them only. Mobility Alone is such a strange metric to use to determine a jobs DPS.

I mean, I agree with you 100% yeah. ShB bard had the same problems when arguing that it shouldn't be trash - "But it's mobile and has 100% uptime," the forums would say, while a melee could be dead on the floor for over a minute and still do more damage, lol.

Yeah, melees are super mobile. The caveat is they have to disengage from mechanics but often strats are found to keep them in melee. So the whole caveat is a strength because they overall deal more damage for that weakness.

And, sure, but they can be disengaged or even dead for a pretty long time and still keep their DPS lead. But in practice that never happens because strats try to prevent them from losing even a single GCD.

As for Summoner mobility. Yes, they are mobile but why?

TBH, I was pretty happy with pre-rework mobility. Yes there were lest instant casts but there was a lot more flexibility on when to choose them. The only restriction was to have 4 further ruin stacks going into bahamut, but even if you didn't manage that, a ruin 2 didn't really cost that much DPS in the long run.

By the numbers - If given a choice between old smn and new smn, I'd choose old smn because it still had all the mobility it needed, when it was needed. (And had some other perks like not being punished as hard for holding burst for add phases).

[IdowhatIwant]

TBH though, I think the mobility argument is heavily flawed. It isnt about a job being Mobile, its about what benefit it brings. On the whole Melee are mobile, and the only issue they face related to mobility (outside of hitting positionals) is when they need to disengage, However, given the sheer size of max range, that seldom happens from what i can see. You can argue that targetability for Ranged classes is always 100%, but there are only a handfull of cases where this actually is a boon for them only. Mobility Alone is such a strange metric to use to determine a jobs DPS.

Every DPS should have roughly the same rDPS at 100% uptime. That should be the goal of SE.

[Aikaal]

Every DPS should have roughly the same rDPS at 100% uptime. That should be the goal of SE.

I actually don't believe that. If melee must deal with uptime and what little left they have of positionals, it should be a job caveat that rewards them with extra power. Similar to casters that need to plan their mobility.

That being said, mobility is an overrated metric. The moment a melee has the same uptime than a ranged, then mobility has no value. I do believe people overestimate how much value mobility has.

Speaking of melee uptime, both Summoner and Red Mage are dealing some degree of melee uptime in their kit with RDM having a heavier melee uptime now.

[tearagion]

I actually don't believe that. If melee must deal with uptime and what little left they have of positionals, it should be a job caveat that rewards them with extra power. Similar to casters that need to plan their mobility.

That being said, mobility is an overrated metric. The moment a melee has the same uptime than a ranged, then mobility has no value. I do believe people overestimate how much value mobility has.

Speaking of melee uptime, both Summoner and Red Mage are dealing some degree of melee uptime in their kit with RDM having a heavier melee uptime now.

Mobility often has the value of providing melee uptime, for example The Vault's final boss tether, non-melee can easily break the tether to give uptime, and a much more extreme example baiting liquid hells in UCoB, where any melee, healer, or caster is going to have to either lose damage or spend resources to bait them whereas physranged can bait them all without altering their rotation at all. This is something often overlooked in rDPS debates, probably because it's entirely dependent on a fight having such a mechanic.