Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[mathias-merodach]

Bahamut now auto fires Wyrmwave when summoned at what ever enemy you have targeted. That interaction is still there, but no longer dependent on if you miss a GCD or don't have the optimal set up for whatever reason.

Yes. You press a button and then forget about it. Same thing with Phoenix. Wyrmfire/Scarlet Flame are cast at whatever you target, but they will also just continuously fire until their timer runs out without any further input from you. Which basically makes them, now, time limited Egi's. And to equate Rite and Catrastrophe to the Egi Assaults is a blatant misrepresentation of the interaction that was had between the Summoner and the Egi's. The Egi assaults were oGCDs, came from your Egi's, and did not lock out the casts of normal Ruin and Outburst with two more buttons. Rite and Catastrophe are GCDs, come from you, lock the casts of Run and Tridisaster (which is really just Outburst so another needles change), adding two more buttons while actually giving you LESS to do and less interaction. Additionally, Astral Flow has nothing to do with the Enkindle abilities of Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan applying only to the activation of Deathflare and Rekindle. The actual "enkindle" was made into a trait and is the new, single attacks that still, in my own personal experience, still seem to miss half the mobs even if I'm standing right in the middle (where as a I caster I should not be) outside of Garuda. Before, it was much easier to utilize them seeing as you had the control over their position before a fight even began and then immediately have them heading towards the target you desired by either attack or order.

[WlyemR]

"Players" as in people who played summoner, I thought this was contextually obvious. How is it doomsaying? The old job is indeed annihilated, not even ruin 3 is the same. I realize there is nothing to do about that SE never reverts anything. My issue is what remains is the most vapid job in the history of the game.

Again, players, as in people who play summoner, is a totality. As evidenced by the several ongoing threads, not everyone who plays the job was onboard with 2.0-5.0 SMN, just as not every player is on board with 6.0 SMN. But again, saying that everything that made SMN a SMN is gone is simply not true.

[tearagion]

Again, players, as in people who play summoner, is a totality. As evidenced by the several ongoing threads, not everyone who plays the job was onboard with 2.0-5.0 SMN, just as not every player is on board with 6.0 SMN. But again, saying that everything that made SMN a SMN is gone is simply not true.

Pretty sure the only thing that didn't change was Physick (edit: I forgot Resurrection, whoops). Old SMN was annihilated not even a hyperbole. "Players" isn't a totality I'm not sure where you learned English, "every" is the specific word/affix that indicates no exception.

[WlyemR]

Pretty sure the only thing that didn't change was Physick (edit: I forgot Resurrection, whoops). Old SMN was annihilated not even a hyperbole. "Players" isn't a totality I'm not sure where you learned English, "every" is the specific word/affix that indicates no exception.

Players is contextually in this instance a totality because you fail to specify the limitations of the statement. You said "something that players enjoyed playing for 8 years." What players? All players, new players, endgame players? Your own words. I have provided clear evidence that that is not the case.

[tearagion]

Players is contextually in this instance a totality because you fail to specify the limitations of the statement. You said "something that players enjoyed playing for 8 years." What players? All players, new players, endgame players? Your own words. I have provided clear evidence that that is not the case.

It's not contextually a totality lol that's not how language works, it doesn't require a limitation. I would have specified every player if I wanted to talk about all of them. Sorry if you interpreted contrary to the standard.

[ItMe]

Wow, I almost feel bad for having fun with the rework.
Why do I do this to myself... I should stop reading threads like this...

[zcrash970]

Does anyone have an explanation as to why SMN discussions always seem to attract either trolls or clueless clowns? It can't be a coincidence anymore.

Because when you release a shallow job, you get shallow people apparently

[Arkavien]

Wow, I almost feel bad for having fun with the rework.
Why do I do this to myself... I should stop reading threads like this...

Right? I genuinely feel like I should feel guilty for having fun. As if everyone on the forums is collectively saying "oh...you enjoy the new summoner? what's wrong with you?"

[Anvaire]

Wow, I almost feel bad for having fun with the rework.
Why do I do this to myself... I should stop reading threads like this...

Please don't feel bad for having fun with the rework. This was an inevitable outcome due to the tw pillars of opinion that has divided Summoner since its inception. On one side we had those that liked the overly complex, focused on dots and on the other we had those who wanted the summons to be more meaningful. The later won the war between Summoners identity.

In terms of design i think its really good and do have fun with it. But i will also agree its too simple for a level 90 job. Essentially its a good base for SMN but needs some mechanical adjustments to add a bit more complexity into it. I suspect this will come in 6.1 - they gave up Phoenix buffs in 6.05 as a band aid and will do meaningful adjustments later.

I think though the hard truth of the matter is that any rework always has a risk of leaving people behind. But for summoner it was always going to be more costly because the rework was not only about making the job play better, but was also about giving it a set identity it has lacked since inception and consolidating its design approach. The overly convoluted and hard job, was simply a mizing pot of design approaches that had to go. I do feel for those who have lost their main. (I too hve mained summoner since Arr Beta.) But this rework has the right design approach and given some adjustments and added complexity wwill make a very solid job. Assuming of course they do add the complexity and to be real, it is very possible we won't see that complexity until 7.0 and beyond. I truly doubt that, and hope i am wrong on that front.

[Inosaska]

The job is fun and they just need to start adding more summons to it as time goes on.