Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[WlyemR]

Does anyone have an explanation as to why SMN discussions always seem to attract either trolls or clueless clowns? It can't be a coincidence anymore.

That's a good question.

[Anhra]

SMN current state does seem kind of halfway finished (kind of like MNK got changed in the middle of ShB) but the direction it goes, is at least better than how it was before. Old SMN was just a Dot Mage which used a pet only to fool people frim its "true" nature. At least, current SMN uses now summons as its Primary gimmick, but it does lack a couple more buttons for that purpose.

What SMN currently is missing, is just the finer polishing, a proper way to fix Physick and imo, shouldnt have any oGCD's at all. Summoning isnt a easy feat normally in Fantasy Games and require alot of focus from the Summoner, at least reflect that in its toolkit.

[WlyemR]

People, like myself, call it a Ruin spam job, because for the majority of your time leveling it is basically all you are doing. Gemshine itself, when it activates after using a summon, is called Emerald, Topaz, or Ruby -Ruin- with the only update being a half name change at 72 that I've seen from being synched down. The majority of these uses being what Ruin 2 allowed you to do. The same thing happens with your AoE. In addition to that, what further lends itself to being a Ruin spam job is that your basic Ruin and Tri-disaster are locked while you are in summon phases, serving absolutely no purpose other than to be greyed out.

Egi Assaults were a bit more than just that. With a max of 2 charges, even at 80, between I and II, they were not exactly spammable. And yes, they were different. Emerald Carbuncle/Garuda's 1 was an AoE attack and there 2 was a AoE that left a wind swirl on the ground for further DoT. Topaz/Titan's 1 was a shield, 2 an AoE. Ruby/Ifrit's were the simplest in terms of what they did; 1 a single target attack and 2 an AoE. And your Assaults and Enkindle, Aetherflow/Energy Drain and Fester/Painflare were all much easier, more convenient, and more able to be planned for weaving with your GCD's.

As far as the Assaults go, yes they were different, but it mostly came down to Garuda for AoE, Ifrit for single target, and Titan for "who actually uses Titan." As I said, you still have access to all of those skills, they are just split between Carbuncle, Rite, Catastrophe, and Astral Flow. I also said I do believe Astral Flow needs a low level equivalent to bring some of that uniqueness back at lower levels.

[rewd]

Old SMN was just a Dot Mage

It's been a while since you last played SMN, uh?

[mathias-merodach]

You still have your Ruin IV blasts during Bahamut. Its called Astral Impulse.

That is not the same thing. Astral Impulse is an order for Bahamut to attack. Previously, Bahamut would attack each time you cast a spell. Built up Ruin 4 stacks, and Ruin 2 when you had none, were used to attack and do more damage yourself while also having Bahamut attack more times. Now, that interaction between yourself and Bahamut is gone.

[WlyemR]

That is not the same thing. Astral Impulse is an order for Bahamut to attack. Previously, Bahamut would attack each time you cast a spell. Built up Ruin 4 stacks, and Ruin 2 when you had none, attack to do more damage yourself while also having Bahamut attack more times. Now, that interaction between yourself and Bahamut is gone.

Bahamut now auto fires Wyrmwave when summoned at what ever enemy you have targeted. That interaction is still there, but no longer dependent on if you miss a GCD or don't have the optimal set up for whatever reason.

[Tulzscha]

I've played since HW but only signed onto the forums now because the state of SMN now makes me feel so sad. I even loved the shadowbringers clunkiness of summoner. Now it just feels like the simplest physical dps job in the game. No other job in the game feels like old summoner and I feel really lost whenever I log in. Have any other former Summoners found a new job to call home?

Nah, I gave RPR a go because all its resources looked interesting but it doesn't really manage them much at all unless I'm playing it wrong, you mostly just hit buttons as they're available unless saving for raid buffs. It's kinda fun but don't think it's for me, I've never enjoyed melee anyway. The flexibility is nice at least.

I was going to try BRD but their dots have been separated from the rest of their kit and it looks like yet another mindless spammy job. Heard RDM has been getting better but looking at its abilities it seems like mostly the same boring drivel to me. Idk.

[Lilyth]

Bahamut now auto fires Wyrmwave when summoned at what ever enemy you have targeted. That interaction is still there, but no longer dependent on if you miss a GCD or don't have the optimal set up for whatever reason.

What interaction is there though if they just attack on their own whatever you target? This is no interaction, it's literally the game playing itself for you. Being dependent on what GCDs you cast was akin to it responding to what skills you used, i.e., interacting. And you didn't even need a perfect set up to get all wyrmwaves, the perfect set up would only allow you to pull it off without using Ruin II's thus taking the most out of it. People who couldn't be bothered with it could just spam Ruin II and achieve the same result with less DPS, but the optimization was still there for those who liked it.

[WlyemR]

What interaction is there though if they just attack on their own whatever you target? This is no interaction, it's literally the game playing itself for you. Being dependent on what GCDs you cast was akin to it responding to what skills you used, i.e., interacting. And you didn't even need a perfect set up to get all wyrmwaves, the perfect set up would only allow you to pull it off without using Ruin II's thus taking the most out of it. People who couldn't be bothered with it could just spam Ruin II and achieve the same result with less DPS, but the optimization was still there for those who liked it.

One of the most talked about issues with Bahamut and Phoenix was their autos ghosting on summoning and them moving and not attacking. That issue has now been solved, and yet somehow that is something people want to complain about. Why, I ask?

[tearagion]

What interaction is there though if they just attack on their own whatever you target? This is no interaction, it's literally the game playing itself for you. Being dependent on what GCDs you cast was akin to it responding to what skills you used, i.e., interacting. And you didn't even need a perfect set up to get all wyrmwaves, the perfect set up would only allow you to pull it off without using Ruin II's thus taking the most out of it. People who couldn't be bothered with it could just spam Ruin II and achieve the same result with less DPS, but the optimization was still there for those who liked it.

This is probably a good example of the dividing point. Fans of current summoner will enjoy pressing the summon button and watching Bahamut do cool stuff, which is fair he is very cool. Enthusiasts of old summoner will have enjoyed being able to plan ahead and extract more damage from a proactive manipulation of Bahamut's old wyrmwave mechanics. This varies too, some liked SB Bahamut more some liked ShB Bahamut more. Nobody is wrong for liking either approach, but to delete one to make way for the other when it was already made borderline effortless is disappointing to anyone who enjoyed the class.

One of the most talked about issues with Bahamut and Phoenix was their autos ghosting on summoning and them moving and not attacking. That issue has now been solved, and yet somehow that is something people want to complain about. Why, I ask?

As someone who enjoyed SB Bahamut most it's because working within a set of restrictions is more interesting gameplay than just getting everything for free with no effort like current SMN does. I never really complained about Bahamut ghosting since SB when they fixed all my issues with it in ShB.