Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[CKNovel]

Somehow I get the feeling you're the last person to be telling anyone to let something go.

At this point debating with aveyond can only results in personal attack and it's time to stop paying attention to them.
Please note they are not even playing SMN, they haven't played EW at all. If this is an alt, the questionable individual has nothing to do other than stalking the forum during the day to "troll" people.

I'm no psychologist but I recommend help from experts to them.

[aveyond-dreams]

Thank you for your post. However, you do realize that continuing this discussion is not an effective way to advocate for the cause of dot casters much less justifying the state of Summoner prior to 6.0?

What is the goal? The return of poison magic and its interactions? There is not much chance of that ever resurfacing in Summoner again but if you ask politely there is a nonzero chance of Necromancer, Time Mage, or a similar caster being added in 7.0 where they could include those mechanics. Further explorations of its original themes/lore? Possible if we end up going to Meracydia, but since new job quests each expansion are no more it's not very likely either.

As for new abilities, as much as I would love to have a complete pantheon of summons and their corresponding abilities by now, I am aware that will not realistically occur prior to 7.0. They could do some things to add depth to Summoner in the coming patches but it will not be anywhere nearly as busy as it used to be. Just like Machinist never went backwards, you cannot expect that of Summoner either.

Here is the best advice I can give to those who are distressed over the loss of old Summoner. Create a support thread and be clear about what concepts you want to see in a new dot caster job. Stick to the topic, and engage with things in a positive and constructive manner. Words only have as much meaning or tone behind them as you see fit to assign. Try to see the glass as half full, not half empty. And if you no longer wish to play as Summoner, fortunately there are 18 other jobs to try out. It's ok to play different classes, goodness knows I did after I decided to not main Summoner last expansion despite it being my first 80.

[mathias-merodach]

Your focus on poison mage ignores everything else that SMN pre-rework had. Yes it had poison to open with, but it had non-elemental through Ruin, Tri-disaster, Deathflare and Ahk Morn. Just like a BLM using Thunder to start dotting before Fire and Blizzard. Summoner continued with elemental attacks: Fire from Ifrit and Phoenix, Wind from Garuda, Earth from Titan.

Those classes are possible; the chances of them cannot be known. I'd ask you to take a moment to think about, and try to understand, in that getting any of those classes and them being dot focused will still NOT be fulfilling for some people. Some, like myself, were drawn to summoner because of what it was, how it played and tied into both the class's progression and lore. Getting any of those classes will still not meet that summoner did.

You are also right that it would be wonderful to have access to more summons. There we once again run into an issue with 14's summoner. One of the HW quests has the WoL and Y'mitra try and get Ramuh. It fails. They discover that, even back in Allag's time, an individual could only attune to 3. That includes someone as gifted as the WoL. There COULD be a way around, but with both SHB and EW going the path of role quests, I don't think it's going to happen since it hasn't been addressed.

In regards to your advice, people can. People have. I went into waiting and seeing after all the time I spent with the class. And it let me down and still is. The stance of telling others to play other jobs is, perhaps not intentionally, dismissive of their feelings and problems. What can be easy for some can be difficult for others. People can have the same experiences and come out completely different. What summoner was happened. People avoided it because of that. Picked it up because of that. For those who did, or grew to, enjoy what it was now see their liked, loved, and/or favorite class nothing like what pulled them to it are left wanting. Even if they do play others, the class is still there. They have to look at it, maybe even choose to play it still, while still having the memories of what made that class fun for them now completely stripped away into something else entirely. Some people will have a hard time with that while others are not because of individuality.

Maybe summoner will never go back to what it was. What' s also true is the only way there's hope for those that have that desire is to speak up. Absolutely it may not happen. I do not think anyone is thinks will just blink back into place by wish. You fail 100% of the attempts you don't make. People who stand for the changes will be disappointed if a revert happens. Those that are on that side, however, should also keep in mind that the feelings they will have should it occur are the -very- same ones that people against them are now having to experience. Respect should be shown for that just as I'm sure they'd want it. Just as I am sure you would want it.

[Rolder50]

What is the goal? The return of poison magic and its interactions? There is not much chance of that ever resurfacing in Summoner again but if you ask politely there is a nonzero chance of Necromancer, Time Mage, or a similar caster being added in 7.0 where they could include those mechanics. Further explorations of its original themes/lore? Possible if we end up going to Meracydia, but since new job quests each expansion are no more it's not very likely either.

I can’t speak for others on here of course, but my own issue with Summoner is that there is no depth, no complexity, no requirement to engage your brain with the current rotation. Ergo, my goal would be to have additional abilities added. More things to weave during the copious amount of room afforded by all the instant casts. More interactions between summons. More things to do and keep track of.

I’m not that particular on what form this depth takes. Would I mind reversion back to 5.1? Nah, I’d be fine with that personally, though I also acknowledge it’s not going to happen. Just give the job something, ANYTHING, that adds a modicum of depth.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

I can’t speak for others on here of course, but my own issue with Summoner is that there is no depth, no complexity, no requirement to engage your brain with the current rotation.

Tbh. This is my perspective. SMN mains went from having a layered job with complexity interwoven in its general structure to...

Well, I leveled SMN to max and it ain't even the least bit difficult for someone who never played the job to pick up. There's barely a learning curve present. I personally view it as partially braindead and its hot bar utterly barren in comparison to other level 90 jobs.

[Dyvid]

I can’t speak for others on here of course, but my own issue with Summoner is that there is no depth, no complexity, no requirement to engage your brain with the current rotation.

This is my perspective and complaint as well. What hurts is it didn't even have to end up this way. You could have had this redesign yet pave it with call backs from the old job.

This image right here is how to create a good summoning mechanic: 3 Astral Calls and 3 Umbral Calls. Astral Aetherflow lets you call the three primals, bonus damage when done in the element flow sequence, then after all three it unlocks DWT/Bahamut. Umbral Aetherflow calls the three primals and it unlock FWT/Phoenix.

[remiff]

It would be cool that in the next expansion they add the other 3 elemental gems, and that we could directly have the choice to take 3 of the 6 invocations of this cycle to make elemental combos and have different effects according to the choice, for example Leviathan + ramuh, Garuda + ifrit, titan + leviathan, etc, etc ...

It would also be nice if each Summoning Gems had a stack of 2 max, so that you didn't manage to spend it before using a demi-summon.

A spell also to sacrifice his stack of remaining gems if ever they are not useful and the use of demi-summon is possible for example 1 gems 2%, 2 gems 4%, 3 gems 6% of personnal damage during 15s.

[Rolder50]

The builder spender system would have worked great for SMN. They could have taken some of the concepts here and made it their own. Scroll down for spell descriptions. Demo lock is fun and engaging. So intense trying not to cap soul shards. SMN could add a row of 5 horizontal lights lights on the gauge. Have ruin 3 and another skill generate “runes” to spend on summons. Extra possible ideas…. maybe the amount of runes you use alters duration or some summons cost more, etc.

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/demono...-spell-summary

I would enjoy Aveyond complaining that it's a demonology warlock rather then an affliction warlocking, if nothing else.

[Madoka]

I don't really think 3 more flavors of ruin is the right answer to fix SMN. Sure it'd be nice for the people who just want flashy colors and aren't maining the class or raiding, but its just another cosmetic thing.